Miracles in the Ordinary with John O'Leary of "Soul on Fire" Film
“God works through ordinary people to remind us of what miracles look like in action.”
John O’Leary was on the verge of death when he was nine years old. Like many kids, he copied something he saw some older boys do. But the result was catastrophic.
John caused an explosion in his parents’ garage, which left burns over 100 percent of his body. Doctors didn’t expect him to survive.
Yet John did.
In this week’s “mini-retreat in a podcast,” hear directly from John O’Leary as he shares stories of what happened, how God saved his body and—ultimately—his soul.
Discover how ordinary people in John’s path ignited his will to live and set his heart on fire for God.
Learn how your heart can be set ablaze by the love of God, too.
Watch “Soul on Fire”—the story of John O’Leary—and bring friends! Learn more at soulonfiremovie.com.
Transcript:
Lindy Wynne (00:00)
Welcome to Mamas in Spirit, a podcast pointing you towards God in everything you are and everything you do. I'm Lindy Wynne and it's a blessing to be with you. Hello everyone and welcome to this mini retreat in a podcast. I am so excited to be here today. We have a glorious guest who is such a
a reflection of the transformation, the love and being fully alive for the Lord, John O'Leary. John, thank you so much for joining us.
John Oleary (00:31)
Lindy, you have like joy in your voice. It is awesome to be with you and the other mamas gathered in the house. So this is super important for me too.
Lindy Wynne (00:38)
Well, and I love how right behind you, your movie, Soul on Fire, the story really of your life and testimony that we're going to be talking some about today is coming out today. And I have been so blessed to see it with my husband. So my husband, Brian and I got to meet you, John, and your wife, Beth, your beautiful wife, Beth, at a screening of Soul on Fire by Sony Affirm Films. And it was a delight to meet you. And I felt such a connection, really, I think because of
love of God and such admiration for you and your covenant with Beth. She is just, she's a delight. I wish I lived near her so I could hang out with her.
John Oleary (01:16)
She, Beth is, you you said John, your movie's coming out today and that's sort of true. I view this truly as, as God working through ordinary people to remind us what miracles look like in action. And they don't look like Superman wearing a cape, soaring around, or Batman showing up in that fancy car. It's family, it's siblings, it's parents at the dinner table, it's nurses and docs and custodial staff, it's college roommates. And then you mentioned Beth, one of my favorite characters in the film.
and in my life, but in the film is this stunning brunette named Beth, who is asked by this burn survivor, crazy man dude in college to go on the dance floor. And she reaches down and she takes a hand that has no fingers and asked the mamas in the house how they might take that hand. She just takes it and she never even looks down. And somehow that's the way my wife is able to love. Like she's able to.
identify things as being different maybe than it in quotes should be and yet not hung up on it. She just loves people where they are as they are. And so, man, if you met my wife, you met the better of the two and that's not humility, it's just truth. Beth O'Leary is awesome.
Lindy Wynne (02:24)
Well, and it's so tender and endearing because everybody I asked John, well, John asked me, who's your audience? And I said, Beth. That's a bunch of Beths.
John Oleary (02:33)
That's the true
response.
Lindy Wynne (02:37)
Yeah, so I don't remember exactly what you said, but you basically said like overworked, beautiful, underappreciated, hardworking, all these wonderful things. so praise God for the blessing of that reflection of God's love that comes to us in real people in our lives. And so in that spirit, in the Holy Spirit, will you please open us in prayer?
John Oleary (02:59)
I'd love to. So Father, you say we're two or more gathered. You are with us and we know you're with us right now. God, thank you for working in our lives. Thank you for working not only in the moments of sunshine and children laughing and everything going smoothly, but in the heartache and in the struggles and in the brokenness and in the fires and in the things we wouldn't wish. But God, you're there to redeem it. Be with these mamas, be with their babies, be with us as we have this conversation as we. ⁓
We celebrate God, not our goodness, but yours. We ask these things in your son's Jesus name, amen.
Lindy Wynne (03:29)
Amen. Thank you for that beautiful prayer, John. And something just came to my heart. And I realized that I've said so many times in Mamas in Spirit that there are these two men that have been like the greatest examples of like joy and one is my mentor teacher from growing up. And he recently passed away. And I even learned more about the trials in his life. And yet he had such the joy of the Lord. And that's what I see in you, John. It just came to me. And
That is the glory of really like the resurrection and of redemption and of God's transformative work. So in that spirit and just in great gratitude of where you are today and the example by the grace of God that you are, I'd love for you to start at the beginning of your story.
John Oleary (04:12)
Well, mean, listen, it's like starting the beginning of Jesus story. Do you start when he's 30 and he begins the mission or do you start at 33 when he's making his way to Calvary? But typically that story begins at zero. You know, it starts at the very, very beginning. So John's real story begins by being blessed to be born to Susan and Denny O'Leary. My mom and dad are, uh.
Fighters in the best sense of the word. They are wild about one another. They're wild about God They're wild about raising kids right and well and for something bigger than themselves And so I you can't choose that it just I was fortunate to be born into this household Which was important for a million reasons, but one is it it poured the foundation? For all of life, but in particular for a very difficult part of life when I was nine And this is probably the beginning you were expecting
When I was nine, I was involved in a gasoline explosion. I was burned on 100 % of my body. 87 % of those burns were third degree. The cause of the explosion was me. know, it's a hard thing to wrestle with, but so often, like, when you look back on it, we do a lot of things that end up harming ourselves. And we don't even realize that while we're racing through life. But this is something I didn't see coming, but I'm the cause, looking back on it.
I watched kids in my neighborhood playing with fire and gasoline. And I assumed if these bigger boys could do it, I could too. So on a Saturday morning, I walked into their garage, my mom and dad's. They were at work. My mom was out with two of my sisters. The house was all mine. I bent over a five gallon can of gasoline, tried to pour a little bit of gasoline on top of this flame.
Right now, like all the ladies listening are like, what is wrong with this boy? If there are any men listening, you're thinking I did the exact same thing because I also am a crazy little boy like little boys, man, they just they're just different. That's awesome. But this thing is going to change my life as I'm over this can tipping waiting for liquid. The fumes came out, grabbed the flame, split the cannon to picked up the nine year old and then Lindy blasted me 20 feet. ⁓
against the far side of the garage. Set my world on fire. Changed my life. I'll speed through some of the recovery, but I find myself that day in the emergency room with burns on 100 % of my body. 87 % were third degree. I'm laying in hospital bed. I'm dying. A person knows when they're dying. I'm naked. I'm skinless. I'm scared. And the only thought I had, this is a true story, the only thought I had was, oh my gosh, my dad.
is going to absolutely kill me when he finds out. My father will be so furious what I did to his garage. And so that's what's circulating in my mind. And I hear my dad's voice on the hall. He's a veteran. He's yelling at some nurse, where's my boy John? Where is my boy John?
And this nurse does me no favors. She brings him back into the room. She should have called security, pulls him back, pulls back that curtain. My dad marches in, points down, and says to me, John, look at me when I'm talking to you. And then he adds, I have never been so proud of anyone in my entire life and my little buddy today this morning. I'm just glad to be your daddy.
And then he says, I love you and there's nothing you can do about it. It's like, you know, over my shoulder on this side right now, a few viewers like I have a picture of the prodigal father with his arms wrapped around this broken kid coming home after who knows what the kid has done in the field of life, man, everything though, twice at least. And this is cool. This is a Rembrandt painting with a right hand. It's this very dainty feminine right hand.
And then there's this left hand and it's this thick masculine left hand. There are no accidents in a Rembrandt painting. Boom. This father is just pulling his child and saying, you are home. You are safe. Feel my grace. I love looking at that dad and I love feeling like that son because that is almost every day how I feel. And I felt it big time as a nine year old kid, broken and naked, bald like that kid up in the painting, dying.
And in need of grace and I got it. And then right behind my father's love came my mother's. I talked about the two hands up there while we need both. My mom's incredible hands about to sweep in so she takes my right hand in hers. My hands, you know, just mauled eventually that the thing amputate all my fingers but that morning it's still hot. It's messy. It's a difficult situation but this bold mom takes my right hand pats my bald head, looks me in the eyes and says I love you.
And for the mamas in the house who have nine-year-old boys, you we don't want to hear that. So I remember looking up and saying, mama, knock it off with the love. Am I going to die? And when I asked the question, Lindy, my expectation was she would say, no, you're not going to die. You'll be fine. And instead, this warrior, this brave woman looks in the eyes and says, do you want to? It's your choice, honey. It's not mine.
I looked up and I said, Mom, I don't want to die. I want to live. And her response was good. Then take the hand of God. You walk the journey with him and you fight like you never fought before. Your daddy and I will be with you and for you, but do your part and fight. And on that morning, and then I'll be quiet on that morning, January 17th, 1987, this scared nine year old little nobody named John O'Leary listened to his mom.
I took the hand of God, I walked the journey with him and I fought. I no idea what it was leading to, but we knew what it would ultimately lead to. We knew we'd come home. We knew he was merciful. We knew he was filled with grace and we knew he was a character that you could lean into and trust on.
Lindy Wynne (09:25)
John, thank you for sharing your story. And it's just riveting because it comes really from your soul. And I can't help but think of the title of the film, Soul on Fire, because even though you were only nine years old, and I have a 10-year-old daughter right now, so I can imagine this. But even though you were nine years old, and I've talked about this many, many times with in Mamas in Spirit is that the soul
John Oleary (09:46)
In the hair.
Lindy Wynne (09:54)
Is the soul like you don't it maybe in some way you have a nine-year-old soul But you have the depth of a soul like a child knows and a child knows the Lord and a child feels all of the things in everything that's going on in life, but yet Regardless of all of that devastation. You said that your hands were marred your body was like Despite that physicality and that your body had been on fire
your soul was so more profoundly on fire for life and for the Lord. And I'm so moved that your mother talked to, she didn't, it doesn't sound to me like she talked to just a nine-year-old boy. She spoke to your soul, your soul for survival. And I can only imagine how much she wanted you to survive and both your parents,
John Oleary (10:32)
Mm.
So your idea that Mamas in Spirit my mom is a Spirit-led woman. And just to be direct, like I'm a Midwest kid and I'm from Missouri. My parents are married. We'd never struggled in any sense of the word. Financially, physically, health, four grandparents were alive, dogs, life was so easy, God was so good. And so you can't really be prepared for a moment when your child is looking up to you with no skin on their body, no hope.
in their heart dying and you've got their broken hand in yours. Like how do you prep for that one? You can't. So all she did was lean into the spirit and come back to a question. This is the way Jesus taught with a question. It's a really wonderful way. Cause right now we want to tweet back the answer. You asked me a question and I will tweet you back. I'll grab a bullhorn in fact. That's how sure I am of my answer. And yet people who are meek, which is not weak.
and spirit led, which is a way to be led, frequently will respond to questions with questions. And my bold mother looked me in the eyes and said, do you want to die? Which she recognized in the same way that Jesus, when he heals someone, frequently will say something like, pick up your mat, wash your face. Like it's not enough to just like receive, it's like go, not go do, choose. And so I think my mom recognized nothing in the staff or a parent
or a sibling or a doctor, whomever else could possibly do for this child would work if the child themselves would not also fight alongside with them.
Lindy Wynne (11:57)
There's such profound wisdom in that. And I think of wisdom, one that's not lost on me and maybe all of us, and maybe a wisdom that we all just hope by God's grace to have in our lifetimes, that each person has to have that will and that drive for oneself and that choice, that ultimate choice of free will. Yet nobody expects a nine-year-old to be in that situation. John, can you share with us, you spent months in the hospital in recovery and continued recovery afterwards.
How did God continue to chisel and shape and mold your heart during that time?
John Oleary (12:32)
Well, you you mentioned at the beginning that the movie's coming out today and the poster's behind me. And when they first did the poster, it was a picture of John O'Leary, the guy playing me, Joel Courtney, with his arms in the air looking at the camera, like a, look at a hero shot. Look at what I've accomplished. Like a top of the mountain looking down. It's great up here. Come on up people. So I encouraged our friends at Sony to watch their film one more time and then do the poster. And now when you look at it, they flipped him around.
And I was with Joel last night, like, it's your best side, dude. It's not the front side that people wait. So they flipped him around. Now you see his backside and he's in the shadows. And what you really see then is the mosaic of all the hands that showed up in little John's life. And as John recovered his life and in college is John's life and an afterwards John's life. In other words, it's the feet and the hands and the love and the spirit of Christ working through all people for his purposes, not John tough.
his toughness and audacity. Uh-uh. It's everybody else. So you ask, how did the Lord work through that time in hospital? Well, not through me, but through my parents. You already heard part of that story, but imagine five months of stories like that layering that works on a child's heart. Imagine when you get a visitor named Jack Buck, the broadcaster for the St. Louis Cardinals, who comes into your life through the darkness. I can't see at that time.
and speaks these words of truth over me. What he said, this is the radio announcer for the St. Louis Cardinals, my hero. He says, kid, wake up. You are going to live. Keep fighting. John O'Leary did the ballpark will make it all worthwhile. Keep fighting. He stands, he's told by the staff, the little boy is going to die. And then he returns anyway the following day.
that kind of love and encouragement and hope has a way of working on a child's spirit. The nurse who you know about, Roy, from the film, he's a real guy, came into my life. And when I was in my death garments, to use kind of a scriptural reference, I'm dying, I'm wrapped from head to toe, he would pick me out of that cave, get me on my feet, drag me toward the bandage change, and essentially say, forget death. Forget death, you're gonna walk. You're gonna walk.
that begins to work on a child's soul. We received letters from Billy Graham, from Pope John Paul II, from Ronald Reagan and his wife Nancy. Trees were planted in Israel. Siblings would come by to visit. Boxes of letters would come in every day from kids around the world saying, praying for you. I don't know which of those bits of encouragement is the one that changed and saved John's life, but collectively they did.
And so I take, I'm not trying to be humble here, truly. I feel like I've done very little in this story, other than almost mess it up repeatedly. And I feel like God's nudge showing up through others keeps just dragging me forward. And I'm profoundly grateful for that.
Lindy Wynne (15:15)
I saw
on your website that there's three points that you, I think, really try to hone in on. Correct me if I'm wrong. And one is our life is a sacred, awesome gift. And do you share that because of all the love that was poured in through you? Like, what I'm hearing is that here you are, one life, one little life, and all of these humans.
rooting and encouraging. reminds me of 1st Thessalonians 5.11, encourage one another and build one another up. You were literally carried throughout your healing by the encouragement and love of others. Is that true?
John Oleary (15:47)
without a doubt and yet there are many who have received who don't recognize what they've got. And maybe no one more clearly than the guy you're interviewing today. never saw my life as a gift. I never saw it as a miracle. mean, clearly, clearly it is. I 100 % burn, like people don't survive this, 87 % 30 degree. And I came home a victim. And I came home almost irredeemed.
and made me almost irredeemable. My heart was just closed. And so I just struggled for a long time. And when my life began to change, it's not really shown clearly in the film other than the outcome of it. But I was 28 in a church service in the back row. That's where the cool kids hang out. They don't go to the front row, man. The cool kids walk in a minute late, sit in the back, and they cross their arms. That's what I'm doing at age 28. And the pastor was preaching on the gift of talents. Five, two, one.
And at that point in my life, you talked about the sacred gift. That wasn't me. I knew, ⁓ I knew my life was wasted. That's me. That's me. And then he says, for those of you feel like you've got no talent. And I did feel that way. He goes, your life is a precious, priceless gift. You got one job now. It is to say yes to being used for good.
And so I went home that day, I wrote it down in my little journal, went to work the following day. This part of it is captured in the film. I'm at a construction site. Can you all think of a worse job for a dude without fingers? They in carpentry like, what is going on here, man? I'm proving to the world that I'm enough. A world that could not have cared a less about me. Really, they didn't care. But I'm trying to show my value to them.
And I'm working instruction, the blueprints are in front of me, a car pulls up, a woman walks out and says, will you speak at my Girl Scout troop? And Lindy, in any other given set of days in my life before that, I would have said no. Because I'm not articulate. I'm not broken. I have scars from the neck to my toes. I walk with a limp. My arms are like 80 degrees. It's all bad. All of it's bad. But on the heels, I receive a message that my life is a precious gift.
I listened to my friend, this pastor, and I said yes. It led to one speech and then a second and then a third and then a fifth and then a 10th and then a 100th. 2,700 speeches, two bestselling books, this full-length film coming out today, all ultimately because some pastor said to me, and to about 600 others at three different services. And most of them probably ignored them.
Because they also, like I did at the time, realized, well, man, life's hard. It's kind of cruddy. And life hasn't gone the way I intended. My parents divorced when I was a kid. I don't have any money to. Whatever the excuse they're giving right now is, they're not fully identifying the fact that their life is a sacred gift. And I did not, even after receiving a gift when I was nine and a second chance at life. But I've grabbed on to that sense.
and I do it imperfectly, but I do it to the best of my abilities. And I try to make my today a little bit better than my yesterday.
Lindy Wynne (18:26)
That's beautiful that one day at a time. Okay, John, if this is not too bold, tell me if this is correct or not. This is what I'm hearing from you is that your mother in the intimacy of really that one question to you in a sense saved your body. Like that was the start. And then that pastor almost 20 years later in just a moment in the intimacy of one moment saved your soul.
John Oleary (18:51)
That's awesome. I think that's fair. ⁓
Lindy Wynne (18:54)
I mean, you needed
to say yes to all of it. But yet that was like moments of grace.
John Oleary (18:57)
Yeah, I it.
And thank heavens for and you you saw the film with your husband like. My mom taught me how to eat again and it's it's almost. It's almost child abuse to put a plate in front of a kid. And for a sibling, my beautiful sister Amy she listens to your show to grab a fork because she's awesome and she's humble and she's here to serve to grab a fork to scoop the potatoes and bring it to my mouth and then for that horrible mother of mine to say Amy drop the fork.
If he's hungry, he will feed himself. That doesn't seem like a moment of grace when you're the one hungry and disabled and unable to do it. But two hours in, as I figured out how to wedge a fork between two broken hands and I'm eating, the entire time chewing, thinking, I hate my mom, what a horrible human, as I'm chewing down potatoes on my own. You recognize looking back on your life, these moments of grace that you ignored when you were flying through it.
And frequently, it's not the handheld sunsets on the beach with a spouse or a child in the water. Like, I love that. I love the beach. I love mountains. I love vacations. But it's oftentimes in these moments that you want to wish on your worst enemy. And you're wondering, my gosh, where is he right now? And then you look back on it and you realize, my gosh, that's right. That one lady who held the door open.
and just said that one word that kept you going. It kept you quite literally alive sometimes. My mom tells this story and I very, very rarely share this, but I asked her who the most important person to her, because we had a lot of celebrities visit us. You heard a couple of name drops a moment ago. I said, mom, who's the most important, like got you through those days? This is when my dad was dying and like we just had a lot of time to talk at his bedside. And ⁓
You know, thought she would talk about the radio announcer or some Hall of Fame player or athlete or celebrity. And she talked about a guy named Don Lee. I'm like, Don, he doesn't even make the move. Who Don Lee, mom? So she reminded me and I knew, but she reminded me, she said, John, Don Lee taught your brother English. He was 17. He was Jim, your brother's English teacher. And he made a commitment after he got burned to hold an offering.
every night at the hospital. And for three hours every night, he would just sit in the waiting room, usually by himself, just in case anyone needed anything. This young teacher, 28 or so. And there was a night where she came out of the room for the mamas in the room. If I haven't rocked you to sleep yet, hang on for this one. For the first time once in, my mother left my room wondering, what should I start praying for? Because up until that moment, she'd always prayed that her son would live.
And yet if moms, if you love something enough, you gotta recognize sometimes you gotta let go. You gotta surrender to God's will, not yours. So she's wrestling. Do I desire this child to live or die? That's a lot on a mother's heart. So she's broken. She's coming out of the out of the burn center, opens up the double doors, boom, they open up. She's weeping, looks to her right, empty waiting room, and there's one little lamp on one young 28 year old guy seated there. Don Lee.
And she just walks over to him and collapses in his arms. It's 28. He doesn't know what to do here. So I said, Mom, gosh, that's a lot. did Don say? Because she said it was the most powerful experience in hospital. What did Don say?
And there was silence and then she goes, you know, honey, I don't think you said anything. I don't think you said anything the entire time. He just was there at the right time. And so it's all the mamas who feel like I do that you're inarticulate or you're not made for days like this, or you got too much going on in your life, or you're not making a difference. Cause if you're at all like my wife, that's frequently how she feels in the race through life. If you're at all like her husband, that's how he feels.
And yet you have these moments of folks like Don Lee who in their presence may have saved that woman's life, may have given her the courage to step forward and may have given her the courage to keep that prayer of God, we want him back. We want him back. We know it's asking a lot, but that's what we want. So there's so much to that story. our story is a collection interwoven of all these various characters.
true humans who just showed up right on time and loved us as we were.
Lindy Wynne (22:50)
Yes, I love how you shared about Don Lee and it ties into when we talked about the sacredness of each life. And it's so interesting as a society and I was charmed when you were like, because I just name dropped all these people, because people name drop a lot and don't say they're name dropping because there's that desire for maybe it comes from a place of insecurity or not knowing our sacredness to try to inflate by the identity of others.
But in our belief and in our family, every single human life is profoundly valuable and one not more than another. And I don't know if you know this, John, but on Mamas in Spirit, one of my most favorite interviews ever was sitting on the street corner in Nashville interviewing a woman who was homeless who talked about
She still had a cell phone. It's amazing how that happens. But she talked about being in the Nashville rescue mission, reading her prayers on her cell phone at night. And I thought about her in the Nashville rescue mission with the cell phone with a little light on, praying, homeless, thinking about all the smells, all the feels, all the sounds, all the struggles, everything that's going on in that room while everybody's supposed to be going to bed.
but here she is praying and it reminds me that the light always overcomes the darkness, that little light in the rescue mission. But my point is, and also saying like how much I delighted in that interview, because we literally, there was no room for us in the end, there was nowhere for us to record, we were supposed to record somewhere, it didn't work out, I'm like, okay, we're gonna sit on the street corner in Nashville. But my point in this is I think what you're getting at with Don Lee and with my mentor teacher I told you about, he was my public school senior year math teacher.
John Oleary (24:10)
always.
Lindy Wynne (24:34)
If I didn't talk about him, no one may know unless they were in his class. You know what I'm saying? But that's the point. And I think that's what you're feeding into everyone here gathering is that each one of us, no matter how we feel, is a sacred creation by God. Our value is immeasurable. And God's love for us is boundless. It's something that we could never imagine. And even if we're feeling
John Oleary (24:37)
Yes.
Lindy Wynne (24:59)
depleted or tired or lonely or struggling, whatever it is, that does not mean that there is not profound meaning and purpose and that we're not making a difference in the life of another that that other desperately needs.
John Oleary (25:14)
Yes. I mean, I could roll on that, but yes. And one of the things I would add to that, Lindy, is we, in this era we live in, we are pretty sure life is about us. And if we're not achieving what we know we are here to achieve, we feel like we've dropped the ball somehow. And yet scripture is replete with the idea of being used for good. And it's usually in the echo of that person's voice that you begin to see the impact of their life.
So it's not in real time. It's years and years and years later that you're like, my gosh, that's what happened. I'm reading a lot about Ignatius Laeula right now. Yes, he made a mighty mark in his life, but 400 years later, like it roars forward still. There's the last of all the saints frequently had little impact and that's be careful, which is seemingly little impact while they lived. And then they pass away.
and then whispers of their work and their goodness get out. decades, centuries, millennia later, we look up at these leaders as people we can be role model. We can be like that. We can strive to be like them. But they weren't pursuing greatness. They were pursuing God's will.
Lindy Wynne (26:19)
Amen. I love that so much. They weren't pursuing greatness. They were pursuing God's will. That is just feels like a piece of gold as well as the echo. It's so humble and so beautiful and so true that the life lived on in the echo. And I feel like it's providential you brought up St. Ignatius because I don't know if you know, John, I was not raised in a religious home and I became Catholic. I converted in college.
at Santa Clara University and I have been most steeped by the grace of God and Ignatian spirituality and it really did change my life. Like I've been on one pilgrimage everybody. It's an Ignatian one, it was for work and being in the room of conversion. And like you're saying like that happened so long ago that he was in his own room of conversion and think about how many souls that has continued to touch and me being there as well. And so I love that you share about that echo and I really wanna talk about that.
John Oleary (27:10)
Mm.
Lindy Wynne (27:14)
the echo of Beth's love because John, you met my husband and I don't know why, but I just, felt this precious, I don't know if it's solidarity or just the sense of like knowing in the Lord, but just, and maybe also because I had the blessing. It's like that thing when people are like, Lindy, I listened to your podcast. feel like I've spent all this time with you. And I'm like, that's not fair. I want to spend real time with you, but I got to experience your film and your story through the film and you and Beth.
That is incredibly touching everybody. And that's just a whole nother blessing from watching the film. I have found this John, and I think I may have witnessed this in your film. So please correct me if I'm wrong. Okay, in my life, my husband has been one of the most profound if not the most profound reflection of God's love. He has seen me as I am, as I am.
John Oleary (28:04)
Right.
Lindy Wynne (28:05)
All my weaknesses, all the ways I struggle, all the ways I grapple, all my, he has seen me transparently. Hopefully the joy is in the goodness and all the things. But in my vulnerability, he has loved me. In my vulnerability, he has loved me. And I would have to say that the love he has shown me is a love, and we are totally imperfect as a married couple, everybody, all the things. We're very normal. It's just the love.
Divine like the love comes from the Lord. It's a reflection of the love of the Lord. I feel like his love has healed parts of me that needed to be deeply touched by the Lord so you talked about your parents and We haven't talked about Beth that deeply yet. I would love to know how that love from Beth has helped to touch and heal you
John Oleary (28:36)
Right.
Well, when we collectively are married, the advice you get from the world is like, put the other person first. Or, you know, it's not 50 50, it's 100 100. Like, but I got advice on our wedding day that I did not understand, but it's you put God first. And then you will love differently than you could otherwise. Because if I put Lindy first, Lindy is gonna say something that's gonna bother me. And I'm done with Lindy.
And she's so obnoxious sometimes, and I hate how she leaves her shoes out and she burns the noodles sometimes too on Tuesdays. It becomes this obnoxious, task-oriented relationship. And yet when you're in love with God and feeling that grace in your life, it allows you to be in love and show that grace in the lives of those that you care for. So that divine love that you're feeling between your husband and you is probably in reality because you're both putting God first.
And in that, you're able to meet one another exactly where they are, which is the call. It's hard to do, but that's really what we are supposed to do. That's what we're called toward. Has Beth healed me? Undoubtedly. In the film, it shows a very sweet moment where she kisses a scar. And that's not made up. It's not Hollywood. It happened in real life. And it was this moment when I was feeling so discouraged. And she just leaned down and scripturally learned about kissing the wounds of Christ.
Like that's what a thing to do. Yet as humans, when we have scars, or we have things that we just hate about ourselves physically, emotionally, that the bipolar diagnosis, the cancer thing over here, whatever it is, the things you want to fade and go away, to love someone enough that you kiss that very thing they want gone, begins to heal that in their life too. And so for Beth, the night we met was at a fraternity party.
And I was living my best life. We'll leave it there for now. And she was coming in late. So I was ⁓ bold enough to ask her on the dance floor. And here's this gorgeous brunette who has never met me before. I extend my right hand. It has no fingers on it. She looks down, does a baton eye, reaches down, grabs my hand, and together we go. And that kind of blindness.
is the way that Beth not only chooses, because it is a choice to love me, but also others in the marketplace. She works today with kids who have special needs. And she doesn't necessarily focus on like what's busted and broken and impoverished in these kids. She focuses on the foundation. What is good? What is right? What's beautiful about them? And how do I help elevate that and make them even better? How do I make them the best versions of themselves? Matthew Kelly, like how would I do this that with this child?
And that's the way she loves me. And that's the way she loves our kids. And that's the way she loves others. And dude, like, that's not my wise selection for a life partner. That is just grace. Because I didn't know best character when I first started pursuing her. I just saw a stunning Burnett. And immediately I'm like, she's, she's like Jackie Kennedy. She's just far more attractive. Let's go. Let's take her on the dance floor. So
you I was head over heels from her for the from the moment go and, and then you talked about the way your husband loves you. Beth has aged 26 years since we met. Yeah, we all know what that means. And yet I'm I tell her every morning told her today like three different times and she's like, you're annoying. I don't care. I'm like, Beth, you're prettier now than ever. Like you are, dude, you're so freaking hot. Like it's ridiculous. And she just she wants nothing to do with that in particular in the morning. But I don't care. Like it's how I feel. I gotta let her know.
And I think part of that is her, but really part of that's just grace. It's just God working through this relationship to soften the edges, and we have many, but also to draw us in the fullness of that promise of what it could look like to be in love, to be truly in love.
Lindy Wynne (32:25)
Yes, I love that soften the edges because to me that's like sanctification that you're speaking to and then also allowing God's grace and God's love to pour in so that we can love in the way God does rather than us. I have kneeled at the cross, the crucifix so many times in my life and said, God, please increase you and decrease me because I cannot love like I'm being called right now. Like in my little self, like I'm not capable of this love, whatever it is. And it's always in the intimacy. And I think that's one of the big things that you've
you've really touched on in this entire mini retreat and a podcast is that these little things were said to you or just a reflection of the profoundness of God's love to you in tiny intimate moments, like even going back to on your wedding day and what was said to you on the wedding day. And it's so interesting because someone said to me recently, they're like, Lindy, you're so wise. And I'm like, not really. I was like, I listen to people.
all the time. Like I always say, I'm the most blessed by mamas in spirit. there are things you're saying, John, that I will always remember by the grace of God. Like they penetrate my heart. They strike my mind. They take down the things that I think that are of me and not of the Lord. And they change me. Like this is why it's so important for us to be with and listen to and fill ourselves with things that are hopefully of the Lord so that we could be changed every day. Like you said, each day, each and every day, we're so
John Oleary (33:46)
Right.
Lindy Wynne (33:50)
Like every day that you were in the hospital, every day of your marriage, that choice to love, that will to live, having hopefully by the grace of God, our souls on fire to love him.
John Oleary (34:02)
You know, I'm glad you brought that all that up there. You know, you whispered, but I'll roar it more clearly. My wife and I did not and do not have a perfect marriage. And I don't know anyone who does this side of eternity, but we're trying to get better. And back in 2017, we were drifting and that's what happens when you're raising 15 kids or whatever we like life gets hard and you're running and you're working and you're, you're easily bothered. And I realized, man, I was taking my.
my dissatisfaction and unease kind of out on her without even knowing it. It's so weird how that happens. The person you love the most is sometimes the person you resent the most. Like that's so weak, so human. And what I wanted to do is to get better. What I did, Lindy, is I started a journal for her. And every day in 2017, I began the entry with a date, the words Dear Beth, and then the one thing I saw her do that day, that just was awesome.
just like, just reflect to God's love or her grace or whatever it was. And for 360 days without telling her, I was just tracking the beauty. Cause it's easy to track the other thing. I became expert at it in years before that. I, I don't think I'm alone in that. So on Christmas morning, I'm a horrible gift giver. Like I'm the guy who gives the lawnmower. Like, here, what do you think about our new lawnmower? Like, so that's, that's me. So be grateful ladies that I'll meet in Mary O'Leary. It could have been far worse.
Lindy Wynne (35:05)
Mm-hmm.
John Oleary (35:21)
But this year I gave her this journal with 360 love letters. And she starts reading, she starts crying, and she says, why'd do it? And ultimately was to focus on her beauty. But here's what happened, and this is the part. The gift wasn't really the journal at the end. The gift was me changing along the journey. That was to date. I don't even know how many years that was until our marriage, 12 years or so, 13.
by far the best year of our marriage. And it wasn't because finally Beth changed and she figured it out. I'm glad she fixed herself. It was because I stopped even worrying about that self. And I just loved her and celebrated that. And I think there's some wisdom in that.
Lindy Wynne (35:58)
Yes, I actually believe that what you're saying is a beautiful invitation for all of us and at the heart of this mini retreat in a podcast. And it's our attitude, our perception, how we perceive things. And John, when I think about what you experienced as a child, that's enough for a lifetime. But yet you've been blessed with a lifetime. And there's been so much more. There have been more relationships, more challenges.
more sharpening, more chiseling. And with your open heart, you talked about the heart because, John, correct me if I'm wrong, it's just this is something I feel like I'm learning right now in my own life about my own heart and my own attitude and my own perception, as well as when looking at like and listening to not only all the guests of Mamas in Spirit, but I'm so blessed to spend so much time with so many people. And the people...
John Oleary (36:26)
Yep.
Lindy Wynne (36:50)
that I am most profoundly moved by, that I'm like, my goodness, I see God's light in you and I feel so fortified. Thank you for pointing to the crucifix. Thank you for pointing to the Lord. Thank you for pointing to light by God's grace are the people who have an open heart. Because an open heart, I mean, and in our Catholic faith, it says that a conversion is a total return to God with all of our hearts and it's in the heart.
that we either choose or negate God. And to me, that's like good and evil. If we really wanna simplify it, I've said before, speaking of movies, I grew up, I'm the only girl of boys growing up. Like I'm the only sister. I watched Star Wars and Star Trek and like all the things. And it's that great fight between good and evil of God who has love itself or not. And so what I'm hearing from you is this beautiful grappling that we all have, but we all don't.
choose and I don't choose all the time, none of us choose all the time to turn to the Lord for God's purification and to change us and shape us so that we can love by His grace anew. And that happened to you when you were nine, that happened to you when you were I think 28 and that happened to you in 2017 and I'm sure endless number of times besides that and really it's about a daily conversion and that's why we gather all the time, that's probably why you do.
all your different speaking engagements and books and all the things because we need that daily conversion to love. So how beautiful that for 365 days, you looked for love, you looked for light, you looked for goodness in your wife. And that is a glorious invitation for us to do the same, maybe by journal, maybe in another way, but attitude and perception, like God will change that.
And that ultimately leads to the heart and hopefully and prayerfully having an open heart to the Lord.
John Oleary (38:40)
That's so good. You said a lot there and it was all spot on. I'll just throw out a challenge to those who are married on this call. Consider doing this for a week. Just try it. Because it's so easy to talk about the shoes at the end of the bed and he forgot to take the stupid trash out and it's just a reflection of his selfishness and arrogance. And that is an easy conversation to have with yourself and then to proclaim out loudly to him.
doesn't help, it doesn't heal, it doesn't change. I'm not saying we can't correct behavior and actions. I just think sometimes you correct them with love quietly. And the best year of our marriage was that year, 2017, and she didn't change, I did. That's one really important piece. And let me be very clear on this. There were some days that were not easy to find the good, okay? We all got those days too, people. But what you seek, find. And...
I implore you guys, you ladies, seek their good. If you're not married, seek the good in a child or in a parent, because in particular as they age, it becomes easier and easier to resent some of the things they're not doing. Seek the beauty, track it, watch what happens.
Lindy Wynne (39:41)
Amen. That is so glorious. John, I cannot thank you enough for pouring out by God's grace so much goodness and love and wisdom and your story, just who you are, the sacredness of your life. So blessed and so grateful. And where can everybody go to find where to watch Soul on Fire? And I hope you'll go this weekend or whatever weekend you're listening to this podcast.
John Oleary (40:04)
Hopefully you're listening this weekend, because this is the weekend to go, although we'll be in theaters for a couple weeks minimum. But this weekend matters because opening weekend is everything. And Hollywood's a democracy. You mentioned a couple movies, Star Wars, Star Trek, keep going going Superman, Batman. Hollywood keeps making shows about heroes who aren't real, who are not real. We also made a story about heroes. They're named Beth.
Lindy Wynne (40:06)
Yeah.
John Oleary (40:28)
Just a normal OT student that's in a sorority who meets a broken guy in college. We made a movie about a hero who's a janitor. We made a movie about parents whose kid got burned and they somehow loved him in spite of it, perfectly through it. It's a story about heroes. And if you want more stories of true stories, of true grace being shown in this world that is longing and groaning for it, vote. And by voting, I mean go. Bring kids, bring a busload, bring the school, bring your friends, bring your neighbors.
Bring those who are non-believers because afterwards it's impossible not to see God's hand in this. And so I have a conversation over pizza afterwards like, well, man, why do you think he lived? How do you think they got through that? Where do you think she found the courage to speak those words over him? On and on. It's just a cool conversation to have afterwards also. You can learn more about where it's playing by going to soulonfiremovie.com. So soulonfiremovie.com.
And then you just type in like, Hey man, I live in Nashville or I'm up in St. Louis or wherever you live. And it will tell you that the closest theater it's probably planning your backyard. I think it's an 1800 theaters. And if you're like, dang, it's not planning ours. Well, there's a little link that says, it to your town and click that link and we'll get back to you we'll figure out a way to bring it to your town. Like we want this thing to go and touch lives. So soul on fire movie.com.
Lindy Wynne (41:43)
Thank you so much, so much. I am so excited and so grateful. Rich Peluso is the head of Sony's Affirmed Films. He has been on Mamas in Spirit and he is just amazing. And I want to encourage these beautiful souls who truly love the Lord and us to encourage one another and build one another up by attending and going and showing our support in real time.
John Oleary (42:08)
this is like one more thing. I hope you listen to this and then you look for it when you go. But every scene was shot where it happened. Which means like when you see the house scenes, those are my mom and dad's actual house. The screen porches, my parents screen porch on and on and on. Like every scene was where it happened. And my favorite scenes at near the end of the film in the church, it's called the Shrine of St. Joseph. It's a gorgeous church downtown in St. Louis.
where Beth and John actually were married, where we shot the film. Macy McClain, he plays my wife, you met her, I think. She was wearing Beth's actual wedding dress, did not need any alteration. This is a small little miracle, but a miracle none the like. That's unheard of. So she walks down wearing this wedding dress. Everyone that she's walking past in the film were my friends and family who were in that church 20 years earlier. And then when Sean yelled the word action, they're supposed to stand up. So everyone rises, all my friends and family.
the actors in the front row rise. But in the second row are my parents. And my mom stands up, my dad can't. He's got Parkinson's disease, he's dying. We don't know he's gonna die as soon as he does, but he's dying, he can't stand. But when he heard the word action, my heroic dad grabs the pew, both hands, you can watch it in the film, and pulls himself up.
So near the very end of the film, you have this moment of this gorgeous girl walking down to her husband in this this this this beautiful church filled with so much love and grace and dollies left and you see my actual mom. She's why I'm there and next to her you see this incredible warrior dad standing for the final time. And I just hope as you watch that scene, it unpacks. What I've been trying to say the whole time like John's not the hero of this thing.
⁓ God is working through ordinary people to perfect a broken story and if that's true scripturally and if you don't believe me read it and If it's true in the life of the Saints and if you don't believe me just read about it what read about nations trying to kill someone Okay, if you so read about that and if it's true in our lives and it is Maybe it's true in our world right now. Maybe it got to working So maybe instead of reading the headlines and being so transfixed on grabbing the bull horns and screaming
We do what my dad did, humbly stand, joyfully smile, and rejoice in the gift of life. It will change you, and in doing that, will change the world.
Lindy Wynne (44:19)
Amen. John, thank you so much. And I remember you said that your dad is your hero and you said, I hope I live and die like him after the screening. This is really, really beautiful, John. Thank you. And let us close in prayer in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Amen. Dearest Lord, you are a generous God and I just sense how deeply you want us to be invigorated in your heart and in your love to pour out as you pour into us. And so Lord, I pray that we do just that and like
John Oleary (44:28)
Oof.
Lindy Wynne (44:48)
John said, what we seek is what grows. May we seek you, Lord. In Jeremiah 29, 13, you tell us to seek you and that we will find you when we seek you with all of our hearts, Lord. May we do just that in our circumstances, wherever we are, right where we are in our lives. May we seek you. In your name we pray, amen. In the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen.
John Oleary (45:08)
Amen.
Lindy Wynne (45:13)
Thank you everyone for the gathering for this mini retreat and a podcast. Please send any messages not only about this mini retreat, but also about the film. look forward to inviting friends and attending again myself. And I, like I said, in kind of what John was just pointing to in the end is it is so important that we gather, not scatter, that is in scripture. And so that we gather together in the name of the Lord and we support and encourage one another in the love of God.
can't wait to be together again next time. This is Lindy Wynne with Mamas in Spirit. May God bless you and yours always.