God Heals Stress with Maria Morera Johnson

The year Maria Morera Johnson turned 49 almost did her in.

Maria faced intense stress in every aspect of her life. The lowest point was when she had a stroke. 

“I was an absolute physical, emotional, and spiritual mess.”

Maria survived and went home carrying a lot in her heart to reflect on. She decided to attend a spiritual retreat at The Monastery of the Holy Spirit.

It was there that the Lord calmed her spirit. 

While Maria walked around the abbey grounds, she prayed the Rosary and sensed Our Blessed Mother holding her hand. Maria also experienced the Lord’s presence as she sat in the chapel. 

Maria’s time at the abbey transformed her spiritual life and affected her in every way. She started journaling her conversations with Jesus and continued for many years. It felt like her salvation. 

Be encouraged to deepen your spiritual life as you listen to this mini-retreat in a podcast from the “Women of Wisdom" series!  

Learn more about Maria and her work at mariamjohnson.com.

Transcript:

Lindy Wynne (00:01.616)

Welcome to Mamas in Spirit, a podcast pointing you towards God in everything you are and everything you do. I'm Lindy Wynne and it's a blessing to be with you. Hello everyone and welcome to this mini retreat and a podcast. This time for us to gather as sisters in Christ and do a deep dive hopefully and prayerfully into the Sacred Heart of Christ.

And one of the greatest blessings for me and Mamas in Spirit, as I imagine for all of us who have gathered many times before, is the opportunity to, in a sense, sit at the feet of other women, other women who have walked different paths than us or maybe similar paths, yet are further along in the journey and the pilgrimage who can pour out their wisdom. And that's why we're here, to hear from wisdom figures, figures of wisdom. And so I would like to welcome

Maria Morera Johnson with us today. Maria, thank you so much for being with us.

Maria Johnson (00:58.828)

Lindy, it's such a joy. can't wait to share my story with you and hopefully have a delightful and enlightening conversation for you and our listeners.

Lindy Wynne (01:08.136)

Yes, and Maria , many people know that I'm so blessed to have different Catholic authors on and I get sent books by different publishing companies and different authors. And I never know what to expect. And I have this, if you're on YouTube, A Beautiful Second Act that you wrote. Saints and Soul Sisters who taught me to age with grace. And I didn't know what to anticipate when I opened to the pages of this beautiful book. And what I discovered was really great wisdom.

and was your outpouring of your own heart and such an honest reflection and expression of exactly where you've been at and where you're at in life and an outpouring of how we can all follow this beautiful example more deeply in our own relationships with God. So before we dive into that, I would love for us to open in prayer. In the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen.

Dear Lord you are so good to us. Not only do you give us our your beloved son, but you give us sisters in Christ and you give us wisdom figures, women who have journeyed in their own lives and their own experiences close to you and who have that deep desire to share your love all the ways that they've been blessed with us. So we thank you for that Lord and we just pray that this time is completely and totally of you and that each woman receives exactly what she needs.

In your name we pray, amen. In the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen. So Maria, it was kind of hilarious when I first opened your book, literally on page one, your first words after a quote were, the year I turned 49 almost did me in. And I have to tell you, we are recording this the year that I'm turning 49.

Maria Johnson (03:00.336)

wow, good advice in here then I think.

Lindy Wynne (03:05.313)

Yes, exactly. So in that spirit and the fact that the Lord has already tied us as sisters in Christ, I would love for you to start at the beginning of your story.

Maria Johnson (03:14.37)

Sure, well, in fact, the year almost did me in. I had a huge health scare. I had what appeared to be a very active stroke that was underway. And thankfully, I lived very close to a hospital that was a stroke center. so, you know, that was a mad dash to the hospital. You know, my husband, let me take you. I'll get there faster than if we wait for everything else to come. And so, you know, it...

That's what happened. Well, thank God in his glorious divine physician. It was nothing to take note of. It was pretty, pretty active when I got there and it just downgraded almost immediately. I had some paralysis in my face. I completely lost all of my vision and

over the course of the next couple of hours, they said that I was out of danger. We were waiting. Actually, it's very interesting when you have a stroke, they start a clock in order to administer that life saving medicine that we were watching for. But long story short, they downgraded it to an ischemic attack. And after a round of need, I was held overnight and I regained my vision.

and I didn't have any lingering paralysis. But wow, I went home with a lot of pondering to do. I had been in a very, very stressful situation, both at work and in ministry, which is always carries a different level of sadness to it. So I was really being pulled in many, many directions. My oldest child was just starting to go off to college.

My husband had received a very dramatic diagnosis of ALS. so everything in my life seemed to be exploding and I was carried along in that wave of the explosion. There's always shrapnel and I felt like I was being hit by everything. And so undoubtedly my blood pressure was very high. I had been stress eating.

Maria Johnson (05:37.806)

So I'd put on a lot of weight. I was pre-diabetic. I mean, I was at 49, just an absolute physical, emotional and spiritual mess. so when I look back on it and all, who was it that said, oh my goodness, her name escapes me. I think Julian of Norwich, all will be well and all will be well and all manner of things will be well. It was.

It was the prayer that I prayed constantly, even as I breathed in and out was Jesus, I trust in you. I just knew that everything would be OK if I could just weather that crazy storm. so it was what was it Queen Elizabeth said that I knew it horrible. The horrible year that was forty nine for you. I've never been happier to turn 50 in my life. Right. So

So, you know, all of these things really, really came to a head. And I actually went on some deep, deep personal retreat at a local monastery, the monastery of the Holy Spirit, where I found a great deal of peace. And that's where I would run away and I would sit in the abbey and I would write and I would write. And so, although this is a new book, this is, you know, about a dozen years ago when this happened.

And so I was able to go back and look at my journals during that period of time and really see where the Lord calmed me, calmed my spirit, calmed me emotionally. And I started a path to physical recovery and the emotional and the spiritual came along with it. So here we are writing about it so many years later.

Lindy Wynne (07:32.455)

Yes, and what a blessing. There's so many things that strike my heart from what you're sharing. The first is, is I think you're the only human I've ever heard say that they were so excited to turn 50. Being that I'm 49 and I have many friends that are older than me, my husband's actually turning 50 this year. Many of my friends have turned 50 and they've really dreaded it. And I think that for me, maybe like you,

Maria Johnson (07:48.206)

You

Hmm.

Lindy Wynne (08:01.786)

because your 49th year was so difficult, but also because you faced your mortality, that my husband has had a rare disease since he was young. And that really changed the way that I saw the gift of life, because there were so many times that I feared losing him or thought that it might be the season that it could really happen, that I see every year as a gift. And I think too, after interviewing

Maria Johnson (08:06.913)

Mm-hmm.

Lindy Wynne (08:29.23)

so many humans who've lost people that they really love or are facing their own mortality or have lost children, that it changes just the whole sense of the gift of life. And so every year is a beautiful year and a beautiful blessing and even if it's hard. And it's so funny because recently I met a little three year old and I said, how old are you? And he said, I'm three. And I said, I said, I'm 48.

Maria Johnson (08:56.622)

You

Lindy Wynne (09:00.81)

So I love that you said that you were excited to turn 50. Yet another thing that struck me from what you're sharing and that also struck me from reading your book is your sense of accountability over yourself and over your own life. And there was a saint's name that I will not remember. I'm a little bit younger than you Maria, not a lot, but I'm a little bit younger, but I got to tell you my memory's worse.

Maria Johnson (09:24.54)

I don't know. I wrote the book, but I have it here as a cheat sheet because I don't know who you're talking about.

Lindy Wynne (09:27.275)

Yeah, good for you. So good. Well, I see that is not in this book, but that I think it was a former pope. Someone saw him and he said to him, thank you for seeing me for who I am or as I am. And as I'm moving into this season of my life, I feel like God is blessing me to see myself more as I am. Like those beautiful blessings and gifts that God bestows on all of us.

yet also the ways that we make choices, that I make choices that cause our own difficulties. I've said this so many times before, but I interviewed a beautiful Dominican nun, Sister Gianna Junker, and she said that I am my own greatest cross. And I feel like you do such a beautiful job of talking about the ways that you've made choices or done things that has caused your own suffering. And I feel like there's a beautiful

freedom in that. It's like the story of the women at the well where Jesus says, you're right, this isn't your husband and you've had five husbands. And for some reason, because Jesus's love itself, mercy itself, she's able to receive that and also own it. And I feel like that's when God can really convert. And so I love how you share all of that. And I would love for you to share with us, Maria, when you talk about going to the monastery.

I would say that silence is my jam, but I think that whether or not we know it, silence is probably all of our jam. When we're truly sitting in the love and the presence of God, the one who loves us most, who is love itself, I would love for you to share intimately with us, like how God reached into your heart. Like when you're facing your own mortality or your own understanding of it at that point, like you've talked a lot and in the book as well as about

Maria Johnson (10:58.966)

Mm-hmm, absolutely.

Lindy Wynne (11:21.273)

the second act, which is not the final act, yet it's significant because we sense that that's where we're moving towards, albeit we don't know when. And then your husband's illness, ALS, that is a very serious illness. I've had someone close to me with ALS. So his diagnosis with ALS and then all the other things that were unfolding in your life. How did God get into there intimately? And if you remember any specific moments from that time.

Maria Johnson (11:50.03)

Yeah, well, I think that the silence and this particular monastery is very beautiful. It's this huge acreage along a natural river and just a beautiful forestry in the area. so I remember that many years ago, now bishop Robert Perrin had said that the seeds of the gospel are everywhere. He created the world.

And so he is in every part of it. And so I would go to the monastery to walk first. I mean, I would sit in the coolness of the abbey later to write, but I would walk and walk and walk and walk. And I walked my way into a healthier lifestyle, you know, and I'll tell you that I had a rosary in my hand. did laps on the rosary just as I did laps on the, you know, around the abbey.

And I always envisioned that the Blessed Mother was holding my hand as I was, you know, clacking away at the beads. And so that brought me the peace and the serenity of just knowing that I was held, right? And then in the Abbey at the end, when I would close out my walk and sit in the coolness and the half light, because they weren't turning on the lights, but there was a lot of...

Actually, there was a lot of stained glass there that was made by the monks. So it was very beautiful to just sit in there. And I just felt the Lord's presence in my heart in those moments. And I did something that I find so helpful and that I would encourage anyone who's going through a struggle, especially if it's a spiritual struggle where you just don't know how to pray. When, before we started the show,

You asked me if I wanted to pray and I have this ongoing bit with one of my podcasting partners. I don't do well with extemporaneous prayer, but I did discover that I was journaling my conversation with Jesus and I found it to be such a helpful thing for me to ponder. know, Flannery O'Connor said, sometimes I don't know what I think unless I write it down. And so I discovered a lot about myself.

Maria Johnson (14:10.526)

in those years of such deep journaling. it was just, it was my salvation, really. And so in that first chapter of the book where I talk about, I combined women and saints, and that's the concept of the book is I tell a little bit of my story and what I'm struggling with. And then I look for mentors in.

extraordinary women and I look for spiritual mothers in the Holy Saints. And I discovered Elizabeth Lassour, servant of God Elizabeth Lassour, who has a remarkable story. Her marriage was by all accounts a good marriage, except that she was not equally yoked with her husband when it came to the faith. In fact, he was a very aggressive and sometimes

hostile to the Catholic faith. And so she felt that she had no one with whom to share the faith. So she turned to journaling. And so it was this interior conversation that she had in her journal. Sometimes letters to her husband, sometimes just pondering, many times specifically addressing the Lord. And she journaled her faith. And I think that that's what I did.

And it led me to certainly a healthier lifestyle and inspiration to move forward.

Lindy Wynne (15:47.209)

Yes, and that reminds me of two things. The first is the questions at the end of your chapters, I feel are really for the second act. in the sense, someone doesn't need to be in the second act or even entering the second act, but they're deeper. And there's a sense of awareness almost about like spiritual formation and development. That's so beautiful. And in the very beginning, in chapter one, you asked,

how do you process your spiritual life? Do you turn to adoration, prayer, spiritual journaling? And I just loved that question because I think what I really loved about it too was the how do you process your spiritual life? Because Maria, I've been waking up and writing for a time. Like that's the first thing I do in the morning. Like I'll do these little readings and then I will write.

And the processing that comes from that and the integration that I believe happens deep in my soul is so much more profound by sitting there with the words. And really anybody can do that. Nobody needs to be a prolific writer or my sweet son who has intellectual disability has written things for me or has copied quotes for me. I have in my room right over here.

Maria Johnson (16:47.522)

Mm-hmm.

Lindy Wynne (17:07.618)

words from our Queen of Peace and his handwriting. He's 26 years old and his handwriting still looks like the handwriting of probably or of a five or six year old. And he has on there, if you know how much I love you, you would cry of joy. And yeah, I mean, it's so beautiful. And I don't have like that many gifts from him over all the years. And so I really see that gift from him as providential. And yet

Maria Johnson (17:10.111)

Ugh.

Lindy Wynne (17:37.121)

The point and the real heart of the matter of this is that that chance to contemplate and to be with the unfolding of our spiritual lives with the Lord through the written word, even in very casual journaling, however it works for anybody.

Maria Johnson (17:53.006)

That's right. Right, that's right. And as a former English teacher, I'll tell you, and this is one where spelling doesn't count. It's an intimacy with your soul to be able to put those words on the page. And it doesn't have to be, as you said, these tomes of incredible insight. I have had very, very dry periods in my life.

Lindy Wynne (18:01.136)

Yeah.

Maria Johnson (18:22.414)

sometimes spiritual, you know, but as a writer, I get writer's block every once in a while, or I just feel like I don't have anything. And that discipline of getting up in the morning and starting the day off in prayer and in journaling, sometimes I would just open the Bible to scripture and just copy a passage. And that was it. That was my journal for the day.

But even the act, you know, there's a lot of science connecting the way that we think and the way that we process our thoughts through writing and believe it or not it includes using cursive writing because There's something in it that makes you slow down to to ponder the words. So It is an excellent exercise. It's an excellent spiritual exercise, but it's an actual it's you know, it's an excellent developmental

exercise for us.

Lindy Wynne (19:19.443)

Yes. And I also love how you talked about walking and praying. I have a precious friend, Peggy, who may listen to this and she does a Rosary walk every single day. And like, I know what a lot of my friends are carrying in their hearts and their lives. And, and many of them are in the second act and there's all kinds of things that unfold with health and with children, with finances, with marriages, all the things we all live very real lives. And when I think of that walking, rooting her,

in the Lord, rooting her in the root, the tree of life itself. Yes, yes, it's very, very beautiful to think about. Yet I also think about how you talked about body, mind and spirit that you were really suffering at 49 and that you have really attended to all of these things. Like when you talk about walking,

Maria Johnson (19:53.518)

Amen. That's right. That's right.

Lindy Wynne (20:14.174)

when you talk about meditating on really, we're meditating on the life of Jesus, and that is meditating on scripture itself, and doing all of these things in tandem, as well as the writing and the processing, it touches the mind, it touches the body, and ultimately what we most want is it touches the soul, it touches the heart, which we see as the interior life. And so what I'm hearing is that in a sense, you needed a great

intervention and that you received that beautiful intervention from the Lord Himself.

Maria Johnson (20:49.55)

Yes, that is absolutely true and I am ever grateful for it. Sometimes I tell my, sometimes my children, but a lot of my girlfriends, you know how when you get out of the shower and you might just wipe the mirror real quick to check out your hair or something like that and then it just fogs right back up. I feel that that was a time in my life where the Lord lifted the veil. He just kind of wiped my vision for a moment.

so that I could see. And it's interesting, and I had never thought about that until now that I'm talking to you. I went blind for that period of time. And so I could not see, and it's that I had not been able to see. And the physical healing, I think, brought with me, brought to me also that spiritual healing to be able to see again, to see what the Lord had in store for me in the second act.

And some of the women in the book have had third and fourth and fifth acts. And so this idea that we're entering a second act because of our age, I think that the encouragement in this book can be for anyone who is pivoting, who is doing something new. It could be entering into a marriage. It could be starting a family. It could be discerning the religious life. It's any kind of.

change that either we intentionally seek or, in my case, is thrust upon us. And so these different acts, it's kind of, I feel now a little short-sighted. I should have just called it the next act, not the second act.

Lindy Wynne (22:22.496)

Well, I love that so much and I prayed before we started like Maria said and I prayed something like, Lord, you know that I've been in a time of transition and I still have a small child at home. She's 10 years old. She's not super small, but she's still quite young. And yet I feel like I'm in a such a significant

transitional time as a parent. Many of you know that our oldest two children, we adopted at six and three. And for 19 years, they either both or one of them lived with us. And that is a such a different daily life dynamic. And it's very vibrant. And it required me to in a sense, like, be prepared and be on all the time.

I used to call it boot camp for the Lord. then I was talking to someone I'm like, it's really maybe should be war for the war for the Lord. And so not only did we move across the country, we moved from the city to what I like to call country city. But if you stand in most corners of my house, all you see is land, which still trips me out. I was driving down our long country driveway the other day, and I literally was like,

a turkey with its feathers open in my neighbor's yard. I'm like, where am I? It's still crazy to me. So that sense of that dependency on God through the transition and then the letting go, the letting go of the intimacy of some of the relationships and some of the friendships that were on the other side of the country while transitioning into new ones here, having our children that are so dependent on us move out, even though there's still dependency there, it is not the same at all.

Maria Johnson (23:49.614)

That's hilarious.

Lindy Wynne (24:14.75)

I feel a little bit like an empty nester because what I've said to people many a time and maybe because of how long we've been pairing in the intensity of raising our first two, I feel like half grandma, half mom with this one because she's so independent and she is so capable just because this is the way it's unfolding to do so much. So the level of dependency is so different. But then it's kind of like, oh, I've lost a little bit of what I could have seen as like my identity per se, but

Maria Johnson (24:41.057)

Yeah.

Lindy Wynne (24:44.037)

even though I know not to look at it that way that like I'm a child of God and we're constantly being called in each day to the work and the will of the Lord, it still is a massive change in my life. And so I appreciate how you talk about this concept of transitioning.

Maria Johnson (25:03.522)

Yeah, yeah, it is. like I said, sometimes it is a choice. I'm sure that moving across country to a rural place wasn't thrust upon you suddenly that you had to react. I'm sure there was a lot of planning that went into that. And so it becomes a time for prayerful planning. But sometimes things happen. And you have to learn how to pivot. And there is so much surrender.

that goes into that. I mean, the absolute need for surrender, I think, is the hardest part. And I think that that's what happened with my health. But there are other things that happened. For example, unfortunately, my parents were aging at the same time that my children were being launched. And so I heard somebody say one time, my feet are here, but my heart is there.

And I feel like there was like maybe this decade long period of longing to be somewhere else and not where I was, but I had to be present to where I was. You know, I'm here taking care of my husband. My father is ill and dying. Where do I go? My husband needs me. My father needs me. My mother needs me. You know, so it was.

It was this whole thing. And then you've got kids who need you because they're launching and they're spreading their wings. And sometimes that's not a smooth flight either. And so I was really feeling like I was the meat between two pieces of bread. something, life was chomping at the sandwich and taking a bite out of me all the time. And so it really became a time for surrender.

Let me tell you that once you surrender to the Lord, it's a liberation.

Lindy Wynne (27:00.88)

All right, Maria, how do we do that? Here's the money question. Here's the.

Maria Johnson (27:03.116)

How do we do that? We practice every moment is an opportunity for surrender, every moment. And you don't get it. I still don't get it right. I had a really funny experience talking about things that kind of pop into your lap unexpectedly. was headed to adoration one day and I had.

really been thinking for quite a while. This was not too long ago, maybe three or four years ago. And I was really asking the Lord for what was next for me. I had retired from education. I was an educator for 35 years. I took an early retirement. You know, when you're a teacher, you can retire after 30. You don't get your pension right away, but you can quit. And I did.

And then during the pandemic chaos, I was asked to come back as an adjunct because they just couldn't find teachers who could teach online asynchronously or synchronously, know, live in the classroom, but also independently. And so I took that on for a couple of years and knew that I didn't like it. I didn't like it. There was a reason why I got out of education.

Not all of it was terribly positive at the end. so I didn't know what the Lord was asking me to do. And I had always joked, and I'm talking about my entire life, I'm happy to do God's will if he would just send me a memo. Well, in today's life, it's an email. So I was powering down my phone and gathering my purse and I had some reading material with me to go into adoration. That was a regular.

guardian at that particular hour. And I saw an email that had come in from the good people at Catholic Mom. And I looked at it. They were asking me if I had any insight into a Spanish language project that they had. And Lindy, when I tell you that I just aggressively swiped it right into the trash, powered down my phone and went into adoration where I proceeded for the next 30 minutes to rail at Jesus.

Maria Johnson (29:26.872)

for not sending me an email telling me what he wanted me to do next. So I don't think that I could ever claim to have heard the Lord speak to me any louder than he did in that adoration where I just, after lamenting this lack of communication, I sat back in the pew and I thought, maybe I should read that email.

So then I had an anxious 30 minutes left in that adoration hour wondering what was in the email.

Maria Johnson (30:01.522)

and apologizing to Jesus for yelling at him. And as soon as I got back into the car, I made a call that changed my life. It was my next act. I'm now the media editor at catholicmom.com, enjoying it, doing podcasting, writing, editing, over 130 writers. And it is the intersection of everything I have done in my life. It is exactly.

I think where the Lord wanted me and prepared me to be. So there you have it. Talk about getting the memo.

Lindy Wynne (30:33.655)

Yes, and isn't that so beautiful that it's an integration of all of this formation that you've had in your own giftings into one place and space, which sounds very engaging and very dynamic. And it makes me think about the St. Catherine of Siena quote about being who we're truly created to be and then we'll set the world on fire with the love of God. And it also reminds me, I worked once with a priest and

Maria Johnson (30:52.909)

Mm-hmm.

Lindy Wynne (31:00.59)

I'll never forget what he said. We were working on a program and I think I had an idea. And he said, when you think about and pray about and discern if you should do something, first look at if there's a need in the world and then look at and see is that need already being met or not. And I always remembered that before really praying, is this your will God? Like there's a practical discernment there. And I loved that so much because for everybody,

regardless of what act you're in in your life, there is always a need in the world for you. There is always a need in the world for each one of us. There are so many people, all of us, really longing for the Lord, longing for love. And that may look a million different ways, but every person is needed. And I think that's really important, especially when women are transitioning from the intimacy of raising children in their own home, if that's what

you've done everyone who's listening or other jobs that have really taken up kind of like a full-time day. Sometimes it can be feel very vulnerable and confusing and I remember it reminds me of when students would graduate. I used to work in university life and ministry and students would be in their their last semester of their senior year or their last quarter and they would be so anxious about what they would do next.

And I think one of the challenges of our modern day age is that it seems like the sky's the limit. And that can be really overwhelming. Yet God whispers into the heart and draws us so specifically like that email that you received, Maria. I love that so much because God has created and shaped and crafted each one of us so uniquely. We're all needed and God will draw us. God will show us where we need to be like you were drawn and shown.

Maria Johnson (32:55.618)

That's right. It's beautiful. And you know, there are so many acts, you know, I thought, I thought, well, was a wife and a mother. So those are my vocations. And then I get into education and now I have another vocation and now I'm doing editorial work. And that seems like that's another thing. I end the book with with Sister Jean Schmidt, who was the chaplain for the Loyola men's basketball team during their famous run in March Madness a few years ago.

And I believe she's still alive at 104. And it seems like every time that she thought that she was retiring, they would call her back to do something else. So she's had like five acts in her life or more. Who knows? And the thing about her is that she embraced each one with joy. And that's something that's hard to do too, because I think that our culture really feeds that we have to be happy all the time. And that's not what joy is.

know, joy is that knowledge of God's love for us. And so I paired her with a young woman who died very young at the age of 24, St. Elizabeth of the Trinity. And I love her story mostly because of what you were just talking about, about being loved. In her writings, she actually had a great correspondence with her prioress.

And in it, she very famously wrote to her prioress, who was struggling with the challenges of her leadership and the demands of her position. St. Elizabeth wrote to her, let yourself be loved. Let yourself be loved. What powerful words, what powerful words. And I think that a lot of what we need today as women is to be seen.

and to see each other. I think that we started our conversation along that direction. And I have a favorite quote from a pope, John the 23rd. And he said, I have looked into your eyes with my eyes. I have placed my heart next to your heart. And isn't that what we do as sisters? And so that's what I really think is encouraging in

Maria Johnson (35:21.354)

in the selection of not just extraordinary women, but these saints to accompany us in these decisions and these challenges in this time of our life where we don't know what the next thing is going to be. And we're not likely to get an email out of the blue. We're not likely to have it so clean cut for us.

Discernment is a very important spiritual practice. And so I think that that's really, really an important message that's a takeaway from the book.

Lindy Wynne (35:59.571)

Yes, that is so beautiful. And it reminds me, Maria, if you had told me that I would be sitting in Franklin, Tennessee, recording this podcast with you for Mamas Spirit Ministry, I would be like, what are you talking about?

Maria Johnson (36:06.318)

You

Maria Johnson (36:13.39)

We could have been neighbors, you know, when we were, before we ended up in, now we live in Northern Virginia, but before we ended up in lower Alabama, where I wrote this book, we had gone to Franklin looking for land. Isn't there like an Emerald mine near there or something for mining? I think there is. Or a Ruby mine? Yeah, there could be. Yeah. Go adventuring. Who knows what you'll find.

Lindy Wynne (36:27.598)

my goodness.

Lindy Wynne (36:33.108)

I don't know, my goodness. I guess I need to do my homework and go mining. Exactly, exactly. I have two more questions for you. So I would love to know, you just talked about like the spiritual sisterhood. I would love to know what encouragement you have for all of the women listening to deepen their spiritual sisterhood both with

Maria Johnson (36:46.634)

Yes, have fun.

Lindy Wynne (37:02.761)

women who walk this earth with them, as well as saints in heaven.

Maria Johnson (37:07.686)

well, you know, I came late to the game of understanding my own feminine genius, right? And so I think that for me, spiritual motherhood is such an important part of our relationship with each other, whether we are embracing the role of a spiritual mother or whether we are seeking the...

the help or the guidance or the accompaniment of a spiritual mother. And I think that the place to find this is in women's groups or through women's ministry. And here's the thing, it's not everybody's cup of tea. It's not. And if you encounter such a group that is not your cup of tea, go look elsewhere. Because I think that the Lord puts women in our lives that are meant to be in relationship with us.

And that's a good place to start, you know, at the parish, at the parish level. Or perhaps, you know, for example, listening to your podcast and listening to I love that you said wisdom, that these are women with wisdom and sharing wisdom. I think that that's so important. So I think that's a good place to start.

Lindy Wynne (38:26.357)

That's phenomenal advice. And I also love Maria. And I noticed this in your book that you have a beautiful open mind and like an understanding of how we work in the sense of like every human being's different and we're all in different seasons of our lives. And we've all had different experiences in our childhood and all the things. And so I love how you say like, you may go to a woman's group and that one might not be your cup of tea. So try something else.

Like I love that so much because it changes the expectation. It's more of a discernment. It's more of an opportunity of being a contemplative in action, of to recognize the desire, to become aware of the desire, and then to make a choice to go try something and gain more information and then either continue or try something else. Because God wants us all to have a place of belonging in Him.

Maria Johnson (39:02.946)

Yes.

Absolutely.

Lindy Wynne (39:24.766)

and a place of belonging with other sisters in Christ to fortify and strengthen and care and love one another on the journey. It's really beautiful, beautiful insight.

Maria Johnson (39:33.794)

Yes, it really is so essential. And I'm always reminded of C.S. Lewis when he, I think it was in the Four Loves where he was talking about friendship and that friendship is born in that moment when you say, you too. know, it's when you find your people. So yes, absolutely. Look for your people. They're out there. They're out there. You just need to be patient sometimes or sometimes, you know, it hits you like a lightning bolt. And then.

Lindy Wynne (39:49.898)

Yeah

Maria Johnson (40:03.544)

How joyful is that?

Lindy Wynne (40:05.012)

Yes, and you talked too about both spiritual motherhood and spiritual daughter ship. And that's so beautiful because that's at the heart of Mamas in Spirit. The mama for Mamas in Spirit comes from my time at an orphanage in Mexico when I was 21 years old. And the little girls would be referred to as mama. And it struck my heart. And I thought it was the most endearing thing I'd ever heard. And so that's the mama's part because I see that the way they were referred to in that affection and endearing.

Endearment, affection, not infection. Affection is how God sees us as his beloved daughters. Yet I'm also a mother through the gift of adoption and I have needed so much motherhood in my own life, so much mothering as so many of us do. And that's also why there's mamas in spirit. So I and all of us gathered can be mothered by other women. And then ultimately you talked about praying the rosary from our

Maria Johnson (40:50.018)

Mm-hmm. Let's try.

Lindy Wynne (41:02.792)

mama, our blessed mother. And so I love that all so much. And so my last question to you, this Mini Retreat in a Podcast is such an encouragement in our spiritual lives. And it's such an encouragement in our intimacy with God. And so I'd love just for you to share whatever's most on your heart to encourage all of us gathered today.

Maria Johnson (41:28.11)

I'd really love to end with Elizabeth of the Trinity's exhortation, let yourself be loved. It's so hard, sometimes it's women, so generous with our time and generous with whatever resources we have when we see that someone needs us. And we are not as receptive to that from others.

because of pride or because of maybe shame or just discomfort in accepting help. And yet that's other women and families and ministries who want to love us. And so I have to say, let yourself be loved. Start by knowing who you are and whose you are. Theoboman used to say that so often.

Know who you are and whose you are. You we are our lords. We are our mother in heaven. Let ourselves be loved.

Lindy Wynne (42:33.373)

I love that so much. You are speaking to my heart so much. And for me, one of the greatest relationships I continue to learn that from, y'all, I'm kind of dense. I'm just telling you, is with my husband. Because I will generalize.

Maria Johnson (42:50.712)

You

Lindy Wynne (42:52.946)

And then my husband will say, I really love you. And I'm like, my gosh, this is real. This is legit. But it's hard for me sometimes to let myself be loved because probably like many of us, I'm trying so hard to love everybody else. But sometimes that means I'm not surrendering to the will of God and that I'm trying to control things and keep my little world in a tiny box rather in the beautiful

Maria Johnson (42:59.587)

Ha ha!

Maria Johnson (43:15.8)

That's right. That's right.

Lindy Wynne (43:22.642)

grandiose, eternal world and love of God, which is so much greater and so much better. So Maria, you are speaking to me and to my heart. So I just love that. Thank you so much. I must also make a confession to everybody. The book of James says, it's good for us to confess to one another. I am getting over being slightly exhausted because I took eight little girls camping.

Maria Johnson (43:50.424)

Madness.

Lindy Wynne (43:51.698)

Yeah, madness, joyful. That was joyful, madness. Let me tell you. I wanna start telling you the jokes that I heard from them and stuff, because they're so funny and so darling, but we don't have time for that. Reach out to me if you wanna know. But so I feel like I'm healing from that. I'm recuperating from that. And I feel like every time with Mamas in Spirit, God is so generous to me because he put you in front of me today. Someone who...

Maria Johnson (43:55.406)

You

Lindy Wynne (44:21.21)

is in ministry, someone who does this kind of stuff all the time, yet most importantly, someone who has such a glorious heart for the Lord and so much wisdom to impart because you have said yes to the Lord time and time again in your own journey. So thank you so much, Maria.

Maria Johnson (44:42.966)

thank you. This has been an absolutely delightful conversation today and I hope that it has a wonderful and beautiful fruit from it.

Lindy Wynne (44:51.028)

Thank you, thank you. And where can everybody find you and find your works?

Maria Johnson (44:54.158)

You can follow me at my website is mariamjohnson.com and it links to my social media. And then, of course, I invite you all to go to catholicmom.com and see our daily gospel reflections. We have so many activities for families and young children for the Sunday gospel reflections and gospel activity pages for children, coloring pages for the tiny ones.

activities for the older kids and I'll podcast over there at PrayerCast and at the Catholic MomCast.

Lindy Wynne (45:31.131)

Wonderful. So catholicmom.com so many resources there to encourage you and your families in faith. And in that spirit, in the Holy Spirit, let us close in prayer in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen. God, you are a God of the most generous love, a love that is endless and eternal. Lord, we thank you for this outpouring. We thank you ultimately for this time with you. And Lord, we just ask for your blessing on all of us as we continue on this pilgrimage.

this pilgrimage hopefully and eternally into your Sacred Heart In your name we pray, amen. In the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen. Thank you everyone for being here for this mini retreat and a podcast. It blesses my own heart time and time again to gather as sisters in Christ so that each of us hopefully by the grace of God are fortified in our walks as we hopefully walk closer to Christ. Can't wait to be together again next time. This is Lindy Wynne with Mamas in Spirit.

May God bless you and yours always.