From Picture-Perfect to Authentic with Jonna Schuster of Catholic Revival Ministries

Jonna Schuster aimed for picture-perfect faith.

Until everything started to fall apart.

Jonna’s perfectionist tendencies left her drained and unhappy—she even started having health problems. 

When Jonna attended a silent retreat with Passionist Nuns in Kentucky, everything changed.

While a blizzard raged outside the chapel, Jonna knelt alone inside. She felt the indescribable touch of God—like she was being held in His hand. 

Over time, Jonna learned to let go of her habits of self-sufficiency and people-pleasing. She experienced the newfound freedom of being her authentic self with God and others. 

Listen to Jonna in this series, “Women of Wisdom,” and be blessed with the kind of internal freedom that only comes from God.

Learn more about Jonna and her book, “Hearing God’s Voice: A Catholic Guide to Listening Prayer,” at www.catholicrevivalministries.com.

Lindy Wynne (00:01.494)

Welcome to Mamas in Spirit, a podcast pointing you towards God in everything you are and everything you do. I'm Lindy Wynne and it's a blessing to be with you. Hello everyone and welcome to this gathering, to this mini retreat in a podcast. It is a blessing and a joy to be together. And today we are with a delightful soul that just lights up the room. Even the virtual room, if you're on YouTube, Jonna Schuster. Jonna, thank you so much for joining us.

Jonna Schuster (00:31.843)

hi Lindy, thanks for having me.

Lindy Wynne (00:34.061)

Well, and I know that you are the author of Hearing God's Voice, a Catholic Guide to Listening Prayer and also the co-founder and director of Catholic Revival Ministries. Yet, Jonna and I have been blessed to spend time together, and really what you are is a delight to the soul, Jonna I love your heart. I love how I see the Holy Spirit work through you, and I know for this series, Women of Wisdom, that God is just going to pour out so generously on us. So in that spirit and the Holy Spirit, will you please open us in prayer?

Jonna Schuster (01:03.587)

Absolutely, in the name of Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, amen. Lord Jesus, we welcome you Lord. We welcome your presence. We welcome your love to flood our hearts, to flood our rooms, to flood our minds. We invite your peace. We invite your wisdom. We invite your word. We invite your voice to speak to our hearts.

Lindy Wynne (01:08.585)

Amen.

Jonna Schuster (01:31.671)

to bring nourishment to our souls. We bless you Lord and we love you. Amen. Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Amen.

Lindy Wynne (01:40.578)

Well, my goodness, everyone can already hear your beautiful heart, Jonna. And I love that you talked about the Lord flooding us, flooding our rooms, our hearts, our beings. And that's exactly what we hope for here together. So in that spirit, I would love for you to start at the beginning of your story.

Jonna Schuster (01:44.707)

you

Jonna Schuster (01:58.456)

Yes, well, I don't have a very flashy testimony to begin with. My story began as a cradle Catholic. I grew up going to CCD and doing all the right things. I was taught the good moral code to follow and how to love other people and that sort of thing. And so on the surface, I was a very devout Catholic, very kind of picture perfect.

student of the faith, student in the classroom. And I really had a strong sort of will to just do the right thing all the time, to be generous all the time. so on the surface, I looked just like the picture perfect quintessential Catholic young girl, young woman. But underneath what actually had developed in me from a young age, from probably around the age of six when my parents got divorced was this sort of self-sufficiency. Like it was a very,

kind of strong, you know, I can do all the right things. I can do it by my own strength. I can do this. You know, I'm going to white knuckle it through the tough stuff. I'm going to offer these things up to the Lord. I'm going to be perfect. I'm going to avoid sin. And even in my sort of secular pursuits of academics and that sort of thing, I was very accomplished and I got a lot of things done. I was very, I guess you could say, practical oriented and proficient in many things. But all of it was stemming from this

feeling of I'm on my own to get these things done. I have to just work my way through to success, to holiness, to whatever it is. And as you can imagine, that sort of has a snowball effect as you carry that mentality through life. You know, it was rooted in sort of this home environment where when, you know, you don't have the stability of two parents providing that sense of security and safety, you sort of develop the sense of, OK, well, then I'm going to provide that.

security and safety for myself. And so that's what I sort of embraced growing up without realizing that it was unhealthy in any way until, you know, things started falling apart a little bit. You know, what I didn't realize by the time I got to adulthood that even though I had, you know, developed this sort of external perfectionistic sort of, you know, example of what holiness looked like as a Catholic woman and

Jonna Schuster (04:19.485)

you know, hit all the check marks on the list. I was exhausted. I was very, very exhausted and, not particularly happy. And what I later found out was that my health had suffered great consequences as a result, because what I didn't realize was that my body had been in a state of fight or flight for pretty much my entire adolescent and adult life.

And so if you imagine a body steeped in cortisol over the duration of years, that takes a toll. And so basically I wasn't happy or satisfied or even healthy on any level from this perspective and this approach to life. And that's sort of the backdrop upon which the Lord came to rescue me, I guess you could say. And it's funny how sometimes when the Lord comes to rescue us,

we're not aware that we even need a rescue because we don't know that what we're experiencing isn't good or isn't healthy or positive. And so that was sort of where I was at. I had known that I had some childhood wounds that needed tending to and healing, and I was pursuing that on the spiritual level and through other relationships. But what I didn't realize was these perfectionistic tendencies in me had rippled into my relationship with the Lord in a way that

Lindy Wynne (05:27.532)

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Jonna Schuster (05:37.046)

made my dynamic with him one of an exchange-based relationship where I was trying to earn his approval, earn his love, merit his kindness, if you will. And so basically the way that he rescued me from that was it came during a retreat that I had taken. at the time of my, I think it was my late 20s, early 30s, I had been in the habit of taking an annual silent retreat off in the...

you know, a passionist monastery in Kentucky in the middle of nowhere, just escaping into the wilderness. And it was winter and I was on my silent retreat. And there was one evening where all the sisters at the monastery had gone to sleep, which meant that I had the chapel all to myself, which was my favorite time to be in the chapel when it was silent and the lights were dim and you could hear the fountain.

Lindy Wynne (06:16.075)

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Jonna Schuster (06:26.445)

kind of trickling through the space and it was, you you could smell even the lingering incense in the room from Mass earlier that day. It was just this beautiful, sacred environment. And I would really enjoy praying there in the evenings. And one of those evenings, I was just sitting in prayer, just quietly listening to my surroundings. And what I started noticing was outside, there was a blizzard taking place. It was a very violent winter storm in the Midwest. And so,

What I was hearing outside was these sounds of the winds blustering and even the building that I was in kind of creaking a little bit, a little bit of rattling in the windows. I could even hear tree branches breaking from the weight of the snow on them outdoors. And where my mind started to wander as I was in reflection was, wow, that is such a powerful storm. My goodness, the Lord.

is that powerful. He could destroy us in the blink of an eye if he choose to. And you know what, I would feel very, very frightened right now if I didn't have this safety, this refuge of a chapel to be residing in. And at that moment, it was like something clicked and I felt the Lord's presence surround me in that chapel. And I felt him say to my heart, Chana, I am.

that power, I am that kind of destructive force, but I am also the safety and the protection around you to protect you from that kind of power. And it was like this moment of just encounter with the Lord where I just started weeping. I fell to the floor on my face just in awe of how big he was.

You know, it's not hard to imagine his grandeur, his power, his strength, but to juxtapose that with the heart of tenderness and protection over me, you know, he's so huge that he can hold the stars in his hands. He's burning balls of fire in his hands, but at the same time, tender enough to cradle our hearts that are so delicate and vulnerable. And so it was like he was revealing that element of himself to me in that moment. And in his largeness,

Jonna Schuster (08:45.717)

It's like for the first time I felt permission to be small, permission to be protected, to not have to earn and strive and do everything by myself, but to lean on the safety and the protection of our Heavenly Father. And it was a moment encounter. Those are the best words I've come up with over the years to describe what that experience was for me, but it really was something that took place on the heart level.

Lindy Wynne (08:49.11)

you

Jonna Schuster (09:11.725)

that I then was able to put words to and internalize intellectually, but it absolutely transformed everything about the way that I related to him. I finally learned how to relate to him as a daughter who understood safety and rest, that I didn't have to continue trying to earn his love, that I already had it, that I didn't have to check all the boxes of the list of, this what a holy person does? Yes, I'm gonna do it. Is this what a nice Catholic girl does, how they interact with the world? Yes, I'm gonna do it.

Instead, I could just relax into my authentic self, my authenticity, knowing that I already had his approval, I already had his love. He'd place me on this earth for a reason and I didn't have to strain and strive and exhaust myself. I could go to him for that strength. And it just revolutionized my relationship with him and the way that I engage with the world around me.

Lindy Wynne (10:05.897)

Jonna, that is so incredibly beautiful. And to think of you in that chapel in the night with that blustering storm that you talked about, such beautiful words that you have, Jonna. It's so deeply moving. I notice his daughter being held and cupped in his hand. And that storm really being symbolic also, I think, in so many ways of the storms of life and the things that could overwhelm or overcome us. And yet you are exactly where I think we each long to be in the palm of God's.

Jonna Schuster (10:26.456)

Yes.

Lindy Wynne (10:34.547)

hand in the safety of God's hand that is so touching. And I live not far from Kentucky and it makes me for sure want to go to that monastery for retreat. And it also reminds me, we live not far from the Nashville Dominican Retreat House Bethany. And Jonna, I sneak in there in the middle of the night when I'm on retreat in my slippers or my sleep socks.

Jonna Schuster (10:44.139)

Yes! Yes!

Jonna Schuster (10:57.868)

Yeah.

Lindy Wynne (11:01.095)

And in the quiet of it all, and I've been in there during storms and I can see outside, like there'll be street lamps or like for the parking lot outside and I'll see the rain just like pouring down and splashing violently really on the ground because we got some really heavy rains here, but being held in the sacredness of the chapel, but really our hearts being held in the sacred heart of Christ.

Jonna Schuster (11:24.759)

Yes, yes, absolutely.

Lindy Wynne (11:28.413)

Yeah, so I would love for you to share with us more, Donna, about how God has continued to change and transform and convert your heart and your life in that intimacy of His love.

Jonna Schuster (11:40.708)

Yeah, like I said, the beginning was I was doing all the right things. It's not like I was living this sinful life, but I was living it out from a place of performance, from a place of uncertainty about where I stood with the Lord, about never feeling like I was enough in His eyes and that I had to keep doing more and more to earn His approval. And, you know, did I pray the rosary? You know, did I fall asleep before I finished? Did I go to daily mass and how many times and that sort of thing. And so,

It's not like those devotionals left my life because they were no longer needed. It was more that the internal posture that I had when I related to God through those things had drastically shifted. became, and I viewed it as a time instead of I get to connect and spend quality time with this person of Jesus that I love dearly and I know he loves me dearly. And so it kind of changed the...

I guess you could say the flavor and the end goal of what my prayer life looked like. It turned into almost this adventure, I would say, where I could lean into prayer anticipating that he's gonna show up, that he wants to be there, spending time with me, that he likes me, that he loves me. And then the question arose of, okay, well then if that's the baseline expectation, what is it that he wants to say to me? If he's not purely interested in

Lindy Wynne (12:40.36)

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Jonna Schuster (13:07.031)

fixing me or making me perfect or calling me out on my faults or imperfections, what then is there left to talk about? And so as I grew in my prayer life and sort of noticed my mindset shifting, it changed the topics of conversation that I would have with the Lord in prayer. And it became more about receiving His love, receiving His words of affection. It became more about what are the things that He is

Lindy Wynne (13:32.52)

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Jonna Schuster (13:35.31)

passionate about seeing take place in the world, like the healing that he wants us to experience, the love and the kindness that he has towards us as his people. What is my mission and how can I pursue it with his help instead of on my own? It's just the whole flavor of everything changed. And that freedom that I was able to enjoy in prayer then started rippling out into my relationships where I didn't feel like I was

constantly searching and you know, had this radar going off for like, can I be pleasing to everybody around me? How can I be the right person? How can I be perfect? And instead, I was able to just show up as myself, as my authentic self with my own ideas and insights. And if people didn't like it, it's okay because...

God loves me and it doesn't matter if people approve of me or not. I have the approval of the almighty king of the universe. so it's rejection, lost its sting, know, feeling like I didn't fit in, lost its sting. And so it's, I'm still, you know, a lifelong work in progress as I grow in all of these areas and enjoy the freedom that this extends to these different areas of my life. But those are some.

Lindy Wynne (14:30.663)

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Jonna Schuster (14:49.313)

very real impacts that that encounter had in my life. And even when I came home from that retreat, my best friend took one look at me and said, Jonna, what happened on that retreat? You look different. Like you physically look different. And this is coming from someone who was my best friend. She knew me for years and yet I physically had transformed in her perspective because of the lightness and the freedom and the joy that it was able to impart to me.

Lindy Wynne (15:00.551)

Yes, in another podcast in this series with Sister Jonna Dominic, she talks about freedom.

Jonna Schuster (15:16.811)

So I think I'm still enjoying a lot of those ripple effects today.

Lindy Wynne (15:27.661)

malleability and docility. And that's what I'm hearing that you're saying is that you had an experience of that that changed you. And it reminds me in Scripture, it says that God is the potter. And it sounds like you became more clay in the potter's hands as you trusted more fully in the potter himself. I have the divine mercy image in front of me, Jesus, I trust in you. And it sounds like you had a profound revelation of that.

Jonna Schuster (15:48.525)

Yeah.

Lindy Wynne (15:55.642)

that you could trust in Jesus and that you could literally lay your body down in that chapel and lay your very self down. And I love how you talk about the internal posture. Posture is a word I've been hearing more and more in these many retreats in a podcast and I love that word. And sometimes for me, laying my body down or taking on a certain physical posture helps me to then have a posture of my heart.

that helps me to have a more intimate encounter by the grace of God with God. And so I'm hearing of that in you. And so there's two other things I'm hearing from you that I'd love for you to dig into more. In your book, you use the word scrupulosity in your beautiful book, Hearing God's Voice. And for everybody listening, correct me if I'm wrong, Jonna, scrupulosity is...

is really unfortunately falsely rooted in anxiety and almost like a concept of an unpleasable God and that here I am trying to please God by checking off all of these boxes and doing these prayers, thinking about like an unpleasable parent, an unpleasable father. And it sounds like your image, because your experience of God transformed that you had this living, this real experience became a God of communion, a God of communing.

a God who is our sacred heart, the heart that we hopefully, our own hearts rest in. And so it sounds like everything completely transformed that you had a conversion or a reversion, one or the other, but either way, a total return to God with all your heart. So I'd like you to talk about that a little bit more, but then I also wanna make sure to get into the transformation that you had in your relationships.

Jonna Schuster (17:30.125)

Yeah.

Lindy Wynne (17:44.471)

moving from people pleasing because it almost sounds like first it went from God pleasing to communing with the Lord to also from people pleasing to communing in healthier, more whole sanctified relationships with other people.

Jonna Schuster (17:59.532)

Yeah, yeah, definitely. That experience of scrupulosity was definitely one that I experienced, struggled with. at the time, I think I would have branded it as just a devotion to being holy, like being the best version of myself. But the reality of it was that it was very introspective and navel gazing. That's a very kind of self-centered posture to bring into a time of prayer with the Lord is

If you're going to sit with a person and think about and talk about and rummage on yourself the whole time while ignoring the presence of the person in front of you, that's not a healthy dynamic. And so that was exactly the transition that I went through is that I started to experience prayer for what it is meant to be, which is communication and communion with the Lord. And it gets a little boring to talk about yourself every time you go to coffee with a friend, you like to talk to the other person about them or some mutual interest and

some things that you share and delight about. And so that transformation, that communion started fleshing itself out in that manner where I didn't become the topic of conversation every single time. I was still able to bring to the Lord, hey, this is on my heart right now. Can I get your input on this? Can you speak to my heart? feel like I could use some encouragement right now. What do you have to say about that? So it still was bringing myself to Him and inviting Him to speak. But it wasn't this

self-improvement endeavor. Prayer was no longer a self-improvement endeavor. It was, like you said, the object of it was communion. And that absolutely had a sort of parallel journey for me in my relationships with other people where I would say my whole life growing up, I had developed this skill of, I'm a very perceptive person. I'm very like highly sensitive person. So I observe

every last detail in a room about everything going on there. And so for better or for worse, I can use this for good or for detriment. But what I ended up doing was I had developed this habit of I could very quickly when talking to a person into it, what it was that they were looking for, what kind of answer they were looking for to the question that they would ask me, what it was that they wanted to hear, not necessarily what they needed to hear, but what they wanted to hear. And so

Jonna Schuster (20:24.555)

I developed this reflex of identifying what does this person want? What can I say or do to make them happy in the moment, make them like me in the moment, and then put forth that persona, that advice or whatever it may be. Like I could be the life of the party if I felt like people would appreciate having the life of a party. I could be the quiet one in the, like I could be or do anything. I could be a chameleon, but the whole time I didn't even know who I was. And so by the time I hit my,

Lindy Wynne (20:47.812)

Hmm.

Jonna Schuster (20:53.507)

young adult years, I at least recognize that there's something unhealthy about this dynamic. If I can't even develop my own opinion about something, I only know how to give people what they want. And so even throughout my college years, I had created this little screensaver that said, be real. I just put the words be real and it bounced around the screen on those little desktop computers that were so chunky back in the day. But it was my continual reminder to

break this habit of just trying to please people and give them whatever it was they wanted to make them fleetingly happy in the moment and to like me while abandoning myself and my opinions and or underdeveloping those aspects of myself or actually cared about certain things or had an opinion about certain things. And so as I experienced that freedom in my relationship with the Lord to show up as myself and to not have to continually

you know, I scrutinize and get carried away with who am I supposed to be for him. I could bring that kind of authenticity into my relationships with other people as well with a greater sense of freedom and almost learning to give myself permission to show up as myself.

Lindy Wynne (22:06.327)

Jonna, I wonder if every single person listening, if not almost everyone can completely identify with what you're sharing and this concept of wanting to be liked or people pleasing versus that full authenticity that blesses with by the grace of God, interior freedom. I'm wondering one and or two things. If you can give us an example or a story from your own life where you

practiced being authentic, even if it was hard and what came of it, how you experience the fruit of that and if or how you would encourage all of us to grow in that, to grow in that authenticity.

Jonna Schuster (22:40.087)

Mm.

Jonna Schuster (22:53.452)

Yeah.

The story that comes to mind, which I even feel nervous about sharing because what are people going to think of me? The story that comes to mind was actually from when I was in youth ministry for about 10 years when I finished my graduate studies and I got a job at a parish as a youth minister. And I have a little bit different of an expression of my Catholic faith as you're probably detecting. Like I talk about Jesus with different words and experiences than what you would normally

expect from the good Catholic. know, I talk about my emotions in prayer and listening for God's voice in prayer and that sort of thing. And so my approach to ministry, I would incorporate those sorts of things. would, you know, you know, teach the students how to hear God's voice in prayer. I would develop things like one-on-one discipleship with them because I valued that relational component to ministry. And so basically my whole ministry was sort of flavored with this like authentic

authentic relational kind of approach. whenever we would have meetings with the youth ministers in the deanery, we would talk like once a month for over lunch about like, are you guys working on and what are your, so we'd have these like really intriguing conversations about ministry and about the goals of the church and what it is that we're trying to do as a church and as a diocese and these sorts of things. And I do remember there was one conversation where,

I can't remember the topic of it, but I remember the subject came up, we were all talking about it and everyone was in agreement that this is the solution to the problem that we're all trying to solve right now. This is how to approach it. And I sat there and I was like, that's not it. I really don't think that's it. I really think it's this other thing completely. And I really want to just like stay quiet because I want to be accepted in this group. wanna be in the.

Jonna Schuster (24:50.987)

world of these professionals who are, who see me through a lens of respect and, and what have you. But I just couldn't keep silent because I, I just felt so convicted about like, I really feel like I have a unique perspective to offer here that could change this conversation and bring help to people in the area that we're trying to solve this problem. And so I put forth my opinion and, it was met with crickets. It was not.

well received. And unfortunately, it's not a happy ending to that story in that it wasn't like, Jonna is amazing. Look at how brilliant she is to think outside of the box. I actually think I maybe stigmatized myself a little bit as someone who takes an untraditional approach, at least in thought to certain things in ministry. But to this day, I'm still proud that I put my voice out and that I

It was like a victory that I needed to experience. even if I do think my opinion had value, but even if it wasn't seen, even if it wasn't appreciated, even if I got labeled something because of it, I think that the more important experience for me was to take that risk in a higher risk situation than other situations I'd been in. Like this is a professional situation that could have a lasting impact. And so I took that risk of authenticity and I'm

Lindy Wynne (26:14.433)

I love what you're sharing Jonna and I found myself tearing up because I sense that internal freedom and when you talk about being a personal victory

Jonna Schuster (26:18.487)

glad that I did it. I think it was an indication that I had grown quite a bit in that authenticity, regardless of the outcome.

Lindy Wynne (26:37.564)

the sharing of yourself fully and honoring really the dignity of your free will and of who you are and how God has shaped and molded you so beautifully is really tremendous. It's really deeply touching. And I pulled up while you were talking what the catechism defines prayer as. And it's defined as a vital and personal relationship with a living and true God. That's number 250.

2558 and it's also prayers Christian insofar as it is communion with Christ That's number two five six five and a covenant relationship between God and man in Christ That's two five six four. So all of the things you're saying about prayer are really reflected in our catechism and are just so beautiful and you may know Jonna and many of you listening may know that I am a convert to the faith at all really I was not raised in in

a religious home and I was, what intrigued me and caught my attention, because I was very observant like you, Jonna, was the living God. And one of the people that I've talked about many times before was my senior year math teacher, Mr. Bond Traker. And he prayed, he prayed with me and his prayer reflected that deeply personal relationship with Christ. And I was just writing about this recently.

And one of the things that I wrote is that he encouraged me and my personal relationship with Christ immediately before a time that I would desperately need it. And that's because my parents ended up separating soon thereafter. And so that deeply personal communion with Christ like you experienced in the chapel, in the monastery, in the quiet, reflects that, reflects what you're pointing to.

And I know that you have this beautiful ministry, Jonna, Catholic Revival Ministry. Can you talk about that and why you felt called to that and what your hopes for everyone who encounters that ministry and all of us are?

Jonna Schuster (28:49.483)

Yeah, that was an outgrowth actually, Lindy, of the beautiful things that I witnessed the Lord do in our community when my husband and I were working in youth ministry together at a parish. We were working side by side as full-time youth ministers in Northern Virginia at a parish. We overlapped for about seven years. I was there three years and then he came on board and we worked together. we had gone all in, in community with everyone and learned

the art of listening prayer and we learn to kind of create space for people's spiritual gifts to emerge and to, when they did emerge, how to sort of coach them through the experience of it. Because our students would have these experiences at home of, know, Jonna, I had this time in prayer and this thing happened to me, I heard this or I saw this or this thing came over me, this emotional experience or whatever. What do I make of that? I don't know, what does that mean? And so,

we would have to contextualize their experience for them because the Lord was already moving in their lives. And so that ended up becoming a sort of pattern in our ministry where, you know, we would witness someone in conversation with another student and that first student would start speaking and we'd be like, whoa, I sense something going on there. I think that's the gift of prophecy. I don't know how to explain what this is, but I'm witnessing something.

let's research this and come back and teach about it. And so basically the Lord was moving in people's hearts. Holy Spirit was moving and active and doing things in the lives of these students. And my husband and I would have to go research, learn how to teach it and explain it to minors who are going to go home to their parents and explain what happened at youth group that night. And so we had to develop this very user friendly language to contextualize what they were already experiencing in prayer and in their spiritual lives. So

When the Lord called me and my husband apart from ministry, he called us to move to California and for a variety of reasons and we felt led and we obeyed that call. And as we were moving across the country, we felt him speak to our hearts and say, hey, everything that you experienced that I was doing in that community in person, in the flesh, I want you to take all that and put it as a resource online for people because you now know

Lindy Wynne (30:59.934)

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Jonna Schuster (31:10.861)

how to teach these experiences of me. There are people everywhere who need to understand this, who need to learn this because they're experiencing me too. And so when my husband and I got our feet on the ground and started getting ourselves established, we created an online ministry called Catholic Revival Ministries that is basically, it started out as a series of online courses that are mentorship based. So they include one-on-one training sessions with either myself or my husband. It's like spiritual coaching where we,

kind of walk through with a person, how do you listen for God's voice in prayer? How do you pray for healing? What do those words of prayer sound like? How do you pray from the heart? How do you prophesy? What if you have this gift? What do you do with it? And so we kind of teach the how-to's of the spiritual life. And so that's how it started. And that's what our hope is, is that people through these courses and now...

As we've expanded, we've now been doing in-person events like workshops and training activities and that sort of thing. But our hope is that people who either are already experiencing the Holy Spirit moving through them and need help understanding how to bring intentionality and collaboration to it with the Lord, how to do that. And if they don't already have an experience to draw from, if they're hungry for one, if they're hungry to learn how to partner with the Holy Spirit,

so that they don't have to do everything by their own strength. They can lean on the gifts of the Holy Spirit, the power, the strength of the Holy Spirit, the love of the Holy Spirit to bring kingdom impact to this world. Make this on earth as it is in heaven. Make our spheres of influence look more like heaven. That's what we do.

Lindy Wynne (32:48.537)

That's so beautiful. And I'm wondering, Janna, for everybody listening, the kind of experience that you had with Jesus in the chapel, with God in the chapel all those years ago,

That's obviously something that's a gift and a grace from God. How can we posture ourselves in the hopes of having powerful encounters with the Lord and to hear his voice?

Jonna Schuster (33:13.641)

that's such a good question. I wish everyone were asking that question. That's beautiful. I think the first thing is to simply have that desire, I think goes a long way because basically what it speaks to is there's this belief that God can and would want to show up for us in that way. And that would actually be, that isn't.

innate to someone in their prayer life if they're like, God would never for me. He would never show up like that. He would never want to encounter me. That would be my first point of advice is to develop a sense of expectancy when you go into prayer. Don't just wonder, I wonder if God's gonna show up when I go to pray today. I wonder if I'm gonna encounter him or not. Go in with the awareness that he loves you so deeply and he wants.

to be known by you, he wants to know you more intimately. And so go in expecting him to show up, expecting him to speak. And then the question goes from, is he going to show up to how is he going to show up? Because what that mindset brings in to our prayer time is if we go in under the presumption that God wants to show up, that he wants to speak to us, to encounter us, then we put ourselves on the lookout.

for how is he going to do it? And then we start becoming aware of what it is that we're experiencing as we pray. And that's really what's at the heart of listening prayer is to develop an awareness of what's going through my mind internally. What's happening in my emotions while I pray? What's happening externally? Are there things in my surroundings that are catching my attention? And maybe God is trying to ignite something in my heart through that object, through that scene in front of me.

So that awareness, that cultivation of awareness is really a key step in learning how to listen. And once you have that awareness sort of developed, then you can take the extra step of discerning. Discern, is that from the Lord or is it not? And there are plenty of resources that we have on discernment. I offer a few tools in my book, but it's basically just.

Jonna Schuster (35:22.551)

Does this line up with Scripture and church teaching? Is there anything that contradicts Scripture or church teaching? No? Okay. Is there anything about this that doesn't line up with the character or nature of God as we see displayed in the life of Jesus? Like, is this something Jesus could say, would say? Yeah, okay. Then let's consider that that was from the Lord and see where it takes us. Press in further for more, that sort of thing. It's really so much simpler than we tend to make it. It doesn't require a big booming voice or lightning bolt. It's just,

Listening, just listening.

Lindy Wynne (35:54.552)

Yes, I love that so much and what you are sharing reminds me of 1 Chronicles 22 19 Therefore devote your hearts and souls to seeking the Lord your God Because when you talk about that first step is how is God going to show up right away that encourages attentiveness? attentiveness and trust and confidence in the Lord who is faithful

Jonna Schuster (36:20.063)

Yes, 100%.

Lindy Wynne (36:22.128)

That's so beautiful, Jonna. And Jonna, I would love to just know, is there anything else, thinking of all these beautiful souls listening, many, women, some men, hello brothers in spirit, papas in spirit, just what else is on your heart that you would really want to share? Think of it as like another, like a sister on the other end. What would you want her to know?

Jonna Schuster (36:47.939)

The first thing that comes to mind is God is so much kinder than you could even imagine. Your capacity to imagine the degree of God's tenderness and warmth and love and kindness towards you still falls short of the reality of it. His ways are higher than our ways. We can't even fathom. that's a really important message that I really wish that

many people were able to experience on the heart level and that I would love for all the listeners to receive today because so much of what we experience in prayer gets put through the filter of what are our expectations of who God is? How do we think he sees us? How do we think he feels about us? Is he condemning? Is he looking for all the ways that we've disappointed him? Is he, you

only zeroed in on the ways that we are imperfect. Is he trying to control or manipulate us to behave better? These are a lot of common beliefs that we can carry about God that are all rooted in like missing the mark on just how kind he is, just how forgiving, just how merciful, just how love-filled he is. And so,

Lindy Wynne (38:08.455)

Here we go.

Jonna Schuster (38:08.681)

If that's an area where there's struggle, where I think we all can point to things in our lives that make us feel like, I'm just not enough. just, I wish I were better. I wish I deserved more love because of how I've performed or done or what have you. I just want to say that's not how God sees us. not how, that's not his heart. His heart is love. He sees our goodness first.

His kindness is everlasting. And yeah, I think that's the primary message. And if that is a struggle, I would encourage anyone who needs to experience that on the heart level to read through, like choose one Gospel Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John read through it just to see what.

kind of person is Jesus? Because when we look at Jesus, we're looking at the Father. He came to demonstrate the heart of the Father. And so what if, as you're reading through Scripture, the way that you experience or interpret Jesus' actions, His words, what if there's nothing but kindness as His motivation? And not like a tough love kind of kindness. What if there's nothing but tender kindness in the tone of what He's saying?

in the actions that he's choosing to take. What if there's no shame? There's no guilt that he's throwing at us. There's no manipulation, nothing like that. What if it's just kindness? What if it's just love? Just entertain that as a possibility and let Scripture speak to you. Let the Lord speak to you through the words of Scripture to reveal that heart of love. That's how he did a lot of work in my heart was just witnessing the kindness, the revolutionary kindness of Jesus.

towards people on the earth that he was walking with him, but extending that to myself. And so I think that's the message that I would want to share.

Lindy Wynne (40:15.213)

I love that extending it to yourself and practicing that self-compassion. And, Jonna, I was looking down and smiling.

in such delight because I have your book here and I was trying to go back through and look to see I believe you talk about Lectio Divina in your book. Okay, yes, that's what I remembered and before you ever said I'd like to encourage you to go spend time with any of the four Gospels. I was looking for the part about Lectio Divina in your book because I think that this is at the heart of your messages as well as other things and correct me if I'm wrong, Jonna.

Jonna Schuster (40:33.762)

too.

Lindy Wynne (40:53.983)

is that the world and our people can essentially tell us lies about who God is or who Christ is. And yet, very sadly and tragically, we can live a lifetime off the image of God that those lies create. And a lot of times in healing ministry, in healing retreats, in healing works, one of the first stages is to, I guess, deconstruct and reconstruct

Jonna Schuster (41:23.011)

Yeah.

Lindy Wynne (41:23.116)

our image of God in truth. And where can we look for that in Scripture Because Scripture literally tells us, the living word tells us who God is. And I think for me, and I think, Jonna, you can relate and maybe everyone listening can relate too. And if not, there's this incredible, glorious invitation that I believe could change your life here, is that when I spend time with Scripture, all Scripture, and especially the gospels,

Jonna Schuster (41:28.919)

Yes.

Lindy Wynne (41:52.257)

My heart is ablaze. I sense it in kindled like the apostles talk about on the road to Emmaus. It is just in kindled. It's like there is no mistaking the presence of the Lord, the presence of the Holy Spirit. In a very practical way, God is very generous. We know, we read who God is, who Christ is. And I think that's a lot of what you're pointing to in this, Jonna, is that

by spending time with a living word, our entire understanding of who God is, and then therefore our capability, our ability, our capability to be close with God changes. And so that is a beautiful invitation and hope for us at the center of this mini retreat and a podcast. And I thank you for that, Jonna.

Jonna Schuster (42:47.799)

Yes, I'm in full agreement, Lindy, that's so beautifully said. And especially the gospels, because this is the one place where God didn't hold back, where he's like, I'm gonna send my son so that you can see what I'm like. can touch him, you can touch me through him. And so it's like, this is the closest that we could have ever asked for to see him, you know, he was in the flesh, but to get a glimpse of.

what is his heart like towards us? And so yeah, Scripture, 100%.

Lindy Wynne (43:20.13)

Well, and it's an invitation like the hemorrhaging woman to reach out to touch the cloak of Christ, to touch Christ so that we can be healed. And so by literally touching Scripture and opening Scripture, opening to the gospels, opening to the New Testament, reading about Christ, that could hold eternal consequence and transformation by the grace of God for all of us. So all glory and praise be to God. Jonna how can everybody reach you and.

Jonna Schuster (43:45.407)

Amen.

Lindy Wynne (43:48.184)

purchase your beautiful book, Hearing God's Voice.

Jonna Schuster (43:51.517)

I am reachable at catholicrevivalministries.com and you can find my book on Amazon. Hearing God's Voice, A Catholic Guide to Listening Prayer is the title and if you search it, you can purchase it right there.

Lindy Wynne (44:05.162)

Wonderful in the spirit of a Catholic Guide to Listening Prayer and hearing God's voice. Can you please close us in prayer?

Jonna Schuster (44:12.515)

Yes, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, amen. Lord Jesus, we love you, we honor you. We thank you for the gift of your love, of your mercy, of your kindness. Thank you that you are the sword of savior who comes after us, even if we don't know what we need rescuing from. Thank you that you never

want us to settle for less than the life and life abundant that you purchased for us. And Jesus, I invite you to show up for every single person who's listening right now, to show up in your magnitude, in your strength, in your glory, in your wisdom, show up as savior, as rescuer, and show up in your kindness.

Let your love permeate our hearts, our minds, our surroundings, and everyone that we engage with as we move forward today. I pray this in Jesus' name.

Lindy Wynne (45:28.285)

Amen. In the of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Amen. Thank you so much for being here, Jhana.

Jonna Schuster (45:33.911)

Thank you for having me, Lindy.

Lindy Wynne (45:35.861)

And thank you everyone for gathering. It is always a delight to the heart. And you can watch many more Faith-Filled Podcasts on YouTube, or you can listen to them at mamasinspirit.com or wherever you most like to listen to podcasts. Can't wait to be together again next time. This is Lindy Wynne with Mamas in Spirit. May God bless you and yours always.