25th Anniversary: Anchored in Heaven with Lindy and Brian Wynne
Host Lindy Wynne and her husband, Brian, said “yes” to the Sacrament of Marriage 25 years ago. They have said a million tiny yes’s to each other ever since.
By God’s grace, Brian and Lindy have been blessed with the gift of loyalty and steadfast love.
In this “mini retreat in a podcast,” listen to Brian and Lindy share what they have learned through both the joyful and challenging seasons of their marriage. Discover how God has helped them open their hearts to each other again and again.
Hear personal stories and insights to support your marriage or other relationships in your life.
Learn more at mamasinspirit.com
Transcript:
Lindy Wynne (00:01.522)
Welcome to Mamas in Spirit, a podcast pointing you towards God in everything you are and everything you do. I'm Lindy Wynne and it's a blessing to be with you. And hello everyone, especially on YouTube. This is hilarious. Welcome to this mini retreat and a podcast that I am literally leaning over because my husband has joined me and we had to record in a flash. So we didn't have time to change chairs or anything else and.
I love that so much because that is at the heart of Mamas in Spirit, to come as you are, for us to come as we are, to not make anything have really even the essence of like in a sense like professionalism over being personal or perfect because there is nothing that is perfect other than God, other than the Trinity and Mary's glorious and Immaculate Heart And so as humans just hoping, hoping by the grace of God.
to really emanate that yes of Mary, to love the Lord with all of our hearts and all of our souls and to give us fully, give ourselves fully to the one who loves us most. And part of that for me in my life is why we're here today, both with my husband, Brian. Hello. And our, you're back. Praise God you're back. a little bit. It's been a little bit. And then our beloved chaplain, Father Jon Meyer. Father Jon, thank you for joining us.
Fr. Jon (01:25.657)
It is great to be with you all on this special occasion. And do you want to say it or do you want me to say it?
Lindy Wynne (01:34.601)
Well, I think we should say it. Why don't you tell them, Brian, why are we here? Lindy and I are celebrating our 25th wedding anniversary and Father Jon is much closer than he seems. He's actually a room and two over. So visiting us. So it's been a very special time and I guess we'll talk more about that later.
Yes, Brian and I have spent the last four days with Father Jon visiting our family and spending time with us and our daughters who live here in Tennessee to celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary and renew our vows. And so it has been an incredible time. And Father Jon, cannot thank you enough for being here.
Fr. Jon (02:30.268)
You know, when people celebrate these great milestones in the sacraments, and I think especially you too, since I've had the honor of walking with you now for, I think, than half of your marriage, it's inspiring not only to be with you and then to meet a lot of your local friends here in Tennessee, but also inspiring in the sense of like,
Lindy Wynne (02:38.541)
you
Lindy Wynne (02:49.375)
inspiring me to be a human.
Fr. Jon (03:00.328)
You know, 25 years is something to write home about, especially in this fluid culture that we live in and where so much fear of commitment is present. And so it's just amazing and awesome. Congratulations to you both for reaching this great milestone. And as many of, if you're especially a regular listener, you know that this has not been an easy 25 years for you two. We'll unpack that a little bit today. But what a gift that...
Fr. Jon (03:29.734)
with God's grace and in the Lord, you are, I think, not only reaching, you know, or, I don't want to say this, you're not only achieving some kind of, you know, milestone, but I would say from my perspective at least that you are really thriving as a couple in the Lord. And that's been evident just in the few days I've been with you. So, great to be with
Lindy Wynne (03:57.787)
Praise God and for this mini retreat in a podcast This is one of my favorite things it kind of takes the pressure off The tables are being turned and father Jon is going to ask our us questions So for those of you who are new in these mini retreats in a podcast mama's in spirit guests share how God has converted their hearts and transformed their lives and we also many of us
Hopefully know that there's always reversion. There's always that call back fully to the Lord to return our hearts and our entire beings to surrender ourselves to the Lord so that hopefully and prayerfully God can work through us and fortify us so we can persevere in loving and loving him, loving God first in all situations and loving one another. So in that spirit, before you start asking us questions, Father Jon, I would love for you to open us in prayer.
Fr. Jon (04:48.208)
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Lindy Wynne (04:52.683)
in
Fr. Jon (04:54.61)
We worship you, Father Most Holy, for you are good and have given us the sacraments as efficacious signs of your Son's saving act of redemption, the great paschal mystery. I thank you in a special way today for all married couples who, whether they are thriving or struggling,
Lindy Wynne (04:56.363)
It's tricky for you to have given us the sacrifice.
Thank
Lindy Wynne (05:08.873)
you
mystery. I think you especially today.
Lindy Wynne (05:20.939)
you
Fr. Jon (05:23.026)
have said yes both to each other and to you.
Lindy Wynne (05:24.499)
sit yes to each other.
Fr. Jon (05:28.466)
and made this podcast which we dedicate for them today may be a...
A balm that reminds us of all things work for good for those.
who follow you and trust you.
May it also inspire those discerners, maybe those who are at different stages of life, to recognize your presence in Brian and Lindy and the great journey and adventure you have led them on and will continue to. We make our prayer through the intercession of our Holy Mother Mary and St. Joseph in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Lindy Wynne (05:50.219)
may inspire those disservers in those different stages of life.
Fr. Jon (06:19.368)
the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
Lindy Wynne (06:22.95)
Amen. Amen. Thank you
Fr. Jon (06:25.768)
All right, so it's actually not been too difficult to come up with various questions. There's a lot that I'm curious about and haven't really had much opportunity. I interview couples who are getting ready for marriage, but not very often do I have the opportunity to interview couples who are 25 years, much less, more plus or minus 10.
Fr. Jon (06:56.198)
Maybe just to start us off, I kind of want to know, what have you enjoyed the most about being married?
Lindy Wynne (07:08.33)
So I'm gonna go first? I've enjoyed the most. know, Lindy and I- You gotta speak in here like you mean it. Let lean over a little bit. gosh, that's interesting. I was just thinking the other day about just highlights. Like if I, if you were to go through the 25 years and certain highlights, throughout that time period, that's an interesting thing to reflect on.
Because there's the reason I'm, I'm hesitating on just spitting out the first thing that comes to mind is because there's enjoyment and satisfaction. And sometimes they kind of intertwine like what is one versus the other. So for example, know, adopting our kids was very satisfying and enjoyable, but also very difficult. So, but very satisfying. but in terms of enjoyment, I would say in, in, just kind of the purest sense of that word.
I would say the companionship and the friendship that we've had since before we got married and that that carried on and that it goes through to today. In other words, not weird, but the thing is we had some friends who were looking at a picture of us when we first got married and they didn't recognize, they didn't know it was us. Now, I think Lindy looks very much like she did back when we got married. I look a lot different. I've lost a lot of hair. The beard has gone gray.
I didn't have a beard back then. wear glasses even though I'm not wearing them right now. And just being able to watch her grow and mature, even physically, it's a beautiful thing to see your wife get beautiful as we age. There's been a lot of enjoyment in that. And there's been a lot of just little...
bits and pieces along the way of both shared milestones and just fun times being together. And I really treasure just all of the components of marriage and intimacy and friendship that we've been able to share over all those years. I don't know if that answers the question.
Lindy Wynne (09:30.088)
Well, again, I want to intertwine it with satisfaction, but I'm going to leave you, leeway to ask that question later if you're to go into that side of it. But.
Lindy Wynne (09:41.424)
I’ll Leave it at that for now. Thank you, Brian.
The thing that's coming to heart for me, so everybody knows, we don't know the questions before Father Jon's gonna answer them. And yes, I'm going to be leaning over in this entire podcast, which is kind of joyful and funny. The thing that's coming to heart is that in the culture that we live in, which is the American culture, and I think for a lot of the world right now, because of the communication through the world, things that are new are really valued.
What's the new in thing? What's the new relationship that somebody has? What's the new anything? Like somehow to have vibrancy in life and to keep life exciting that we need something new. Like I just think one of our family members just got a new car. And so it's like always having the next best thing. Yet the most joy in my life, the true joy, the deepest joy has not come from something new, but from something old.
When I think of the relationships that have withstood time and the opportunities to be fully myself, because it's safe, because we've loved each other through difficult times, awkward seasons, wonderful seasons, all the joys and the struggles and all the different parts of life. And there's no relationship in my life that's more intimate.
and why I've experienced that more fully than in my marriage with Brian. And so in my marriage, and I do believe it's because the 25 years of tiny yeses, like there was the initial yes at the engagement. I remember us looking at each other. We were at a park together and I remember me saying yes and then us going on a walk together and looking at each other and being like, what are we thinking? Like, this is crazy.
Lindy Wynne (11:42.76)
We were so young, we were 22 and 23 years old, and it was almost like the yes was so beautiful and exciting and overwhelming at the same time. I do think we had some sense of the commitment, even though we didn't know what that really looks like. And so that's what's wild 25 years later, is looking back on those 25 years and now knowing what we were seeing yes to. And so that initial yes and then the yes at our sacrament, the sacrament of marriage,
Yet these 25 years have been a million tiny yeses to one another. And by the grace of God, those yeses, and by the grace of God, the scripture that comes to me is that God is our cornerstone. And I think that when we say yes to the Lord in circumstances or situations or relationships like a marriage, when we say yes, hopefully and prayerfully, we become more like the Lord. But I think the covenant
becomes more like the Lord by God's grace so that it becomes more of a cornerstone. So it makes me think of the St. Catherine of Siena quote that I say all the time about being who you're truly called to be and created to be, which there's only one of each one of us, and you'll set the world on fire. I feel most free and at joy, which I think it's deeply intertwined, freedom and joy, like true freedom, true joy in my home.
in my marriage, in my intimate little family life, the family life we've created, because I know I'm loved as I am, as my very imperfect self. They know me most intimately, Brian knows me most intimately, like all my shortcomings or the ways that are difficult to be in relationship with me or difficult to live with me, all the way to the things that hopefully and prayerfully are wonderful to live with me and that they're thankful to live with me and all the things, but it's like,
It's the whole, it's being loved as the whole of who one is. so that's been just really the most tremendous gift of my lifetime.
Fr. Jon (13:50.184)
Yeah, what I hear in both of your answers, and just kind of re-echo what you said, Lindy, is like the yes, our yes to the Lord is always going to bring joy. And whether that is an invitation to carry the cross, which you both have had your fair share of, or those great moments like, you know, adopting your kids, being at home, and just the ordinariness of the family.
Lindy Wynne (13:54.694)
Thank
Fr. Jon (14:18.834)
There's a yes, I think, in all of that that's centered in God. And, you know, I think that's an important message to communicate to others because sometimes God can come off, I even to Catholics as kind of a judge who's expecting, you know, these great things from us. And we as broken, feeble selves who make mistakes all the time,
Lindy Wynne (14:29.414)
because sometimes it
Lindy Wynne (14:37.831)
expecting these great things from us. we as a group have made some mistakes in the time.
Fr. Jon (14:47.752)
can almost not just feel intimidated, but we fall into the trap of self-condemnation or some kind of inner critic because of our misunderstanding of how much God wants us to be joyful, to be fully alive. And so I appreciate that answer that both of you sort of merged in there, that following the Lord, saying yes to Him.
has been such a great part of and source of joy in your marriage. So anyone again who has been listening to this podcast for more than two or three episodes will know that you've had your fair share of surprises in these last 25 years. Some again, good surprises, some more difficult surprises. What I'm wanting to just hear is something that surprised you.
Lindy Wynne (15:20.326)
So, anyone again who has been listening to the podcast for more than two years or episodes, have had a few or fewer surprises in the last 25 years, um, some again would surprise you with surprises. What I'm interested in here is, um, a surprise, something in your marriage that surprised you about what the other was capable of doing in showing love? know, I mean in terms of we have expectations about people and I imagine that spills over into marriage and so what is an event that where your spouse surprised you in a way that I guess was maybe fortifying or affirming for you?
Lindy Wynne (16:38.917)
Do want to go first? I can think of two instances that this has happened in the home that we live now, that we've lived in for a little bit over four years. There were two different times that I was feeling very upset.
and disconnected in our relationship and that I was struggling, that I was having a really hard time. And this has happened throughout our marriage. And I truly believe from my 25 years of experience and of being married to Brian, who is steadfast and loyal, yet I still questioned that at times because in my own humanity, that has to do with me, not with Brian, but just in myself. And I truly believe that this is at the heart
of, in a sense, like every maybe God-loving relationship, if I can be bold enough to say that, and like this has really allowed God to be at work in our life together and on our relationship in the most intimate of ways. So when I was so upset, I really did understand somewhere within myself that I was at a crossroads and either I could stay upset and pull away
or just kind of be like surfacey, agitated or angry, which I mean, I've seen that so much in my life, like even in my childhood and stuff, like when people just kind of stay bitter and guarded and distant and all the things, and that only allows for more layers to be built around the heart and around the relation, like in between the relationship, like barriers to the relationship. And so by the grace of God, on two different times, I came to Brian and we had
a very transparent and vulnerable conversation where I was like utterly sincere about what I was feeling, what I was experiencing. I was teary. I tend to be more of a stuffer than a super emotive person. And I've really learned that there's like a very healthy balance in the middle of those two extremes from people that are just wiser than me.
Lindy Wynne (18:55.168)
And so like I've really had to learn to be vulnerable and say what I feel like that I feel insecure about that I feel hurt about that I feel lonely about that I feel disjointed about like whatever it is that I feel wounded, whatever it is. And I think that there's a part of me in those moments that felt utterly vulnerable. Like, like I could almost go to the point of feeling like
unlovable or like if I share this, I don't think it's conscious in the moment, but it's like almost like I feel threatened that if I share this that it might not be accepted or that I might not be loved or like this could be the demise, which that's all me, everyone. Like God has done such a healing work in me. It's just I come from like an experience of a lot of brokenness in my family. My parents are divorced and I love them so much and I'm close with them both. It's just that is part of my reality and that did impact me.
And so to go to Brian and to say these things and share these things, and it almost seems like, I'm be really honest, like he falls in love with me more in those moments. Like the way he looks at me, like the way he softens, the way he expresses like companionship and steadfastness and like that he's always here. Like unless God takes him from this earth that he will always be here.
And in my humanness, I don't always feel trusting of that. It's not super tumultuous every day. I don't wanna give the wrong impression. It's just when it gets down to these really, really vulnerable things, it's hard. And that might be part of everybody's human condition. I think only someone listening could answer that for oneself. And I don't think it's contingent on certain dynamics in life or realities or circumstances, like if somebody came from a divorced family or not or whatever. I think that...
this could be part of the human condition for everyone. And that is what makes someone stand apart. And I knew that by the grace of God. I mean, I can't even tell you by the grace of God. I knew that when I said yes to Brian and when I chose Brian, because I knew God was drawing me to Brian because I had not dated anybody like him before. This was not my track record. And I don't wanna take away from anybody I did date because those are beloved children of God.
Lindy Wynne (21:16.756)
It's just looking realistically at patterns of behavior and like a lack of healing. It would have been, we would have been a hot mess. And so when, and not that Brian and I are in a hot mess in a different way, like everybody is, all human. It's just, I knew that Brian was like a Joseph, even though I wouldn't have articulated it that way at 22 years old when we got engaged. I knew this was good, like you said before Father Jon, because everything from God is good.
Nothing in discernment can be a bad choice or an evil choice or a dark choice because then that's not of God. So like in Ignatian spirituality, which I also wouldn't have been able to articulate at 22, like everything on the table always has to be good. So when this invitation to marriage came to me in my life and even just dating, it was hard for me to say yes to dating because it was so different and so good and so holy and so of the Lord.
And so I knew when I was choosing Brian that this was good and that has been my experience and it continues to be good. So even in those vulnerable moments, it's almost like I expect, I'm sorry to say like it's somewhere in me, like maybe in my, the most broken part of me, like I would expect like someone to leave, like somehow leave even just emotionally at some point, but like that never has happened and it never happened. And so then that it heals over time and also from direct healing work.
with the Lord. Thank you. Not really. Thank you. Surprise. That was very nice. Thanks. Two things came to mind when you asked that question, Father Jon. The first is, and you already heard this ad nauseum. I don't like to talk about it, even though Lindy does. But one of my, of I was sick, Lindy was so there.
And it's not her character would have you know displayed that this is what she would have done But it was the level to which she was there and cared for me was surprising. I Really? Felt you that's thanks and unfortunately that happened more than once or twice marriage or even three times but Who's counting?
Lindy Wynne (23:36.033)
The second thing was when I was struggling and in fact, I told Father Jon about this is I made a bad financial decision back during the COVID time and and that combined with a lot of time to really be by myself and beat myself up over this. I really tried to get Lindy bad at me for this and I just couldn't and it's a surprise. That's surprising me.
And one of the beautiful things about that is that it kind of brought the whole thing around, like what really matters? Are we doing okay with the things that really matter? And it wasn't, I gotta say, wasn't catastrophic, but it was enough for me to feel a deep level of shame, and it was a difficult thing to own. I hadn't made errors like that, many errors like that. that surprised me, and once I was planning to come over to see me at work, I was having a hard time, and you came over and...
visited me and you know, it was really nice. The irony is it wasn't the most tumultuous even financial thing, but for me, for some reason, this was a crushing feeling for me of shame and guilt. Anyway, you were very much there and I couldn't get you to be mad at me. So I was the only one who could be mad at me. So thank you.
Those are two surprises. I'm sure there are many more, but those are the two that came to mind.
Fr. Jon (25:02.928)
So the theme I hear in your answers, and I'm not trying to make an analysis of everything you're sharing here, but maybe just to.
summarize the thought is fidelity. You both shared like how you were surprised by the way the other was faithful to you as a spouse in difficult moments or moments at least where you yourself had this self-perception that you were unworthy or that you know...
Almost as if like and I know we we can be our own worst enemies about this like well if I were me I wouldn't still be married, you know, but it's like from from the spouse's perspective and maybe this is part of the grace of the sacrament is You know when when we when you say the vows For richer for poorer in sickness and in health, I don't do we actually say for richer or poorer?
Fr. Jon (26:06.916)
I don't think it's part of the Catholic one. Off the top of my head, don't Here I am thinking Protestant movie, Hollywood stuff. know sickness and health is definitely there, but regardless, like the vows hone in on fidelity in difficult moments with the other. so it's beautiful that you can acknowledge
Fr. Jon (26:36.06)
the other's faithfulness when maybe there was doubt in that. And isn't that, I think, part of the human condition? I mean, even as a priest, there's occasional struggles, I even in our own faith with God. Will God show up? Will He be faithful? And He's being faithful to you through each other, which is great.
Lindy Wynne (26:58.474)
I was going to say, you know, one of the things that resonates is that it's really just the unconditional love, too. You know, it's like knowing that that and experiencing that that love and care persists regardless of the conditions, meaning like, OK, you're going to lose your home, but we're still together. So you still have that, you know, that it's like a it's freeing. Really, it's there's a greater sense of freedom and just the elemental things.
are there, the things that we all really ultimately yearn for and need. It's like being a kid, as a kid, it's like you don't oftentimes don't know the social status to which you're born. You don't realize if you're rich or poor, you're out playing with your friends, you're having a great time. Like a little kid playing with a box versus the toy. There's a lot of freedom in that because it opens up a big world of, it allows for a lot of room for error.
It allows for healthy risk taking, whether like, sometimes it's business, but it could be just, we adopted kids. You do some stuff that takes a leap of faith, but it enables you to focus on that and worry less about the other side of the repercussions. I'm not saying that I'm, mean, if anybody, I I've been trying, I strive to take care of the family in all the ways I can, but regardless, that freedom is still there.
And because I've experienced that. So, thanks.
Fr. Jon (28:35.432)
To maybe just jumping off from that, you entered 25 years ago into a covenant with God and with one another. How has your understanding of the sacrament of marriage changed? What is maybe one thing that you didn't necessarily have a good grasp of when you got married 25 years ago that now it's like, okay, this is... And maybe it's just a theme, a theme...
then versus a theme now.
Lindy Wynne (29:10.308)
To me, I think a lot of it is just being able to, you know, roll and embrace change. Change is inevitable. That's the one thing that's inevitable. And it could be all kinds of things can change for for for a couple. And it's a lot of like Lenny was saying earlier, it's like a lot of continual yeses to that relationship. And
embracing change when you can, you know, if you embrace it. It allows again for a lot of freedom. So. That's something I definitely have learned and learned to appreciate and something you can even look forward to, like something going to change and it's a new season, something different's happening. And that can be very exciting, too. And scary. And. When you go into a marriage, I was thinking.
One of the things that I value about us is that the core values, we were watching our wedding video, were there. I'm like, wow, we did pretty well, maybe we pretty wise when we were younger. But those core values are still there. In fact, sometimes I feel like, gosh, I wish we were as in tune as we were back then. But we are, but just in a different way, in a much more mature way. There's a lot of life experience and hard-won life experience to get there.
Fr. Jon (30:34.024)
Brian, before you answer, Lindy, could I just probe that a little bit? like, is there something that has helped you be open to change? Because it seems that I think as life goes on, it gets harder to do that, right? I mean, especially you get kind of settled in your ways, both as a relational dynamic, but even, you know, with career and home, et cetera. And I mean, I understand you guys have made intentional changes, but is there something that you would just say has been
Lindy Wynne (30:35.646)
Thank
Lindy Wynne (30:44.67)
Lindy Wynne (30:50.856)
Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (30:58.019)
Hmm.
Fr. Jon (31:03.13)
instrumental in, as you said, like looking forward to the change.
Lindy Wynne (31:07.834)
That's interesting. I think in reality, the paradox of a difficult time, it can help you to embrace it. So one of the things that actually can help, I guess helped me to learn how to embrace stuff was challenges and being very uncomfortable.
That really helped. As far as looking forward to change, I think it's also just recognizing the pattern and this is life. Like this is life. Life is not, it's not a linear graph from birth to death. There's a lot of ups and downs and that's just part of the roller coaster ride. So some of it's just viewing life and being able to recognize, okay, this is part of the roller coaster.
I think the scariest thing for people, and we've all been through this, know, all of us, in different capacities, when it's going to end is a very scary thing because that's hard in terms of even with family, planning stuff, like what are you gonna do? Well, if you know you're not gonna be here a week from now, you might do something different today than you would otherwise. But just outside of...
of that and being at, think faith, faith is what really shores up that element of concern as far as like when it's gonna end. But other than that, just embracing the roller coaster ride. Yeah, and I guess that's a level of maturity to get to that point. again,It's hard, I'm not saying that's any, I mean, it's been hard, but I think that's helped me.
Fr. Jon (33:23.558)
Yeah, the one thing that strikes me what you said, and not just because I'm a priest, but, you know, faith being a...
I know, like an avenue where it's the tool that kind of keeps us open.
Fr. Jon (34:03.866)
Actually, to be honest, the line that's coming to me is from Our Lady of Lourdes, you know, when she told Bernadette that, cannot guarantee you happiness in this life, only in the next. You know, and there's always this like prophetic calling in our life that invites us to a holy indifference, a holy detachment. And I think with faith, we can do that. But when we grasp on too tightly, that's when I think change.
Lindy Wynne (34:04.412)
Let's catch you.
Lindy Wynne (34:14.811)
Mm-hmm.
Fr. Jon (34:34.002)
can really lead us into like misery or depression or, you know, can be really hard.
Lindy Wynne (34:39.488)
Yeah. One thing also, I could add, is I was just thinking about that as you were talking, I just thought this visual came to mind is like being anchored in faith, but unlike a boat anchor going down, think about reverse the anchors in heaven. And if as you're going through these this stuff and you're slowly getting reeled in, you're slowly getting to heaven.
but you're moving all over the place. You can be swinging all around. but it's just that faith. If you could keep that anchor and having, you'll eventually, you know, you'll work your way there. but I mean, you've got to keep the anchor there and that's, that's, that's the direction. I mean, that's challenging, but, it doesn't have to be always a feeling. You can do it just out of decision. And just even sometimes if you feel like you're just plotting through mud concrete, you're just,
Fr. Jon (35:19.847)
And then.
Lindy Wynne (35:30.204)
plotting through wet concrete and you just, but eventually you step out of the wet concrete into sand and then onto dry concrete or grass. So things easy to walk. So it changes, but just anchoring in heaven, anchoring to the Lord.
Fr. Jon (35:46.118)
Yeah. Thank you. All right, Lindy, when you think about how the sacrament has changed for you, what comes to mind?
Lindy Wynne (35:55.375)
Yeah, so bear with me because the beginning of my answer is that I didn't know that in the sense of our covenant, like how brutal it could be on earth. So bear with me for a moment. There have been times in Brian's and my marriage and our covenant where in a sense, like when we first made a commitment to our covenant, it was Brian, me and God. And that has not changed. That is what our covenant is.
Yet, as a daughter of God, there have been distinct times in our marriage where it feels like I am making a decision, that yes decision, where I could either turn my back and say no or yes. And the decision is being made in a sense between me and the Lord because God pursues the heart. And I want to talk about the heart. I don't think I understood going in
with the experience, and when I use the word brutal, I think of the heart, and I think of Mary, and I think of her seven sorrows, and for those of you who aren't as familiar, like Mary is pierced in the heart seven times. Seven times she is brutally pierced in the heart with sorrow and with suffering. And so there were times when Brian was so sick or on meds or sleeping or in the hospital or whatever it was, and it felt like
it was a piercing to the heart and Jesus pursues the heart because that is where it's not only the center of our interior life, but it's also where we either choose or deny God. It's either where we say yes or no to the Lord. It's where we really, in a sense, like I was a girl, I was born with, I grew up with brothers and my dad and so was like all like Star Wars and Star Trek and all the things and it's like.
It is good or evil. And so it's in the heart that we each intimately and personally choose good or bad. We choose God or we choose evil. And so I say that because I think from my experience of watching hearts and seeing my own heart, experiencing the piercing of my own heart, that I could choose.
Lindy Wynne (38:13.253)
to pull away and to be guarded. And I have been guarded like we all have. I think we can be, we're all lost in some sense, like we're all guarded in some sense. the only immaculate heart is Mary's heart. Yet at the same time, we're called like in confession for a total return of our hearts to the Lord. That sounds so easy and so lovely. I find it incredibly difficult in my own experience. Like that's to me where like the chiseling and the sharpening
really happens by the Lord because in my humanness, time and time again, I could want to pull away because at times the suffering has been so difficult. Like I couldn't have imagined how difficult some of that suffering would be. And yet I think this is the choice. Like I remember Brian and I used to live by a neighbor and he was an elderly man and we loved him. He was very, very guarded. He was like one of the most ornery, persnickety, difficult people.
to kind of be around and to be with and whatnot, yet we loved him. Our neighbor across the street, I really think, did the best job of loving him. They had a great friendship. It was really precious. But I think of him because it's like, I'm either heading on that route, in a sense, or like, and I'm not trying to put anybody down, but like, or I'm going towards the root of the people in my life who are elderly, who are fully alive and love the Lord. Like people like Jon Bosio who's,
been in a podcast before people like my mentor teacher who just passed away Mr. Bontrager and actually one of the greatest honors of my life is that I'm gonna be speaking at his funeral probably around the time that this is gonna be released so everyone can say a prayer for him and his wife Mrs. B it's a mutual it's a memorial service for both of them but like it's like I have a I have a sense of following either of those modelings but ultimately if I am going to follow Christ that is the ultimate model
of surrender for love, of being killed for love. Like that's why he died. He died for us, to save us. There's no greater act. And so for me, I didn't understand that. And this is the part that will make me the most emotional. I, Brian and I just renewed our vows and why did we wanna renew our vows? There was a number of reasons. Well, no, I take that back. There was two reasons.
Lindy Wynne (40:34.733)
And one had to do with gathering because we've just lost our beloved Uncle Don, who said it's always good to gather. So it's good to celebrate this beautiful milestone by the grace of God. The other reason that I haven't shared before right now publicly is because I felt some guardings in my heart. Like I felt ways that like I'm guarded going into 25 years of marriage and it's the same cycle in a sense, but different.
And I have fears, you know, like I have fears. I hope it's OK. I say this. I could always take it out. like I have fears of like, if I'm being really honest, like of like burying Brian, you know, fears of it's hard to love. It's like that quote, it's better to have loved and lost and never have loved at all. That probably strikes people's hearts because it's hard to love and it's hard to lose. It's hard to lose someone when you love them so much. But like that's love.
I think Jesus, it was hard for Jesus to like leave his friends, leave the disciple whom he loved.
to leave his mother. Like that couldn't have been easy for him, but he still gave his life out of love. And so I wanted to publicly proclaim my love for Brian again and renew our vows because I didn't even realize how much it would open my heart. Like I thought my heart was pretty open, but like my goodness, it's been like an outpouring of grace, God's grace and generosity and goodness that like I could not have imagined.
I told Father Jon and I think I told a couple of their friends, like, it felt the same as when we said our vows the first time. this applies to this question, Father Jon. It felt the same, the same purity of heart of a 23 and a 24 year old coming together without all this stuff that we've experienced, both the good and the bad over the 25 years. It felt exactly the same in purity of heart and the way we looked at each other, the way that we said them.
Lindy Wynne (42:36.054)
The only thing was different was that we have 25 years together now. That is different. And so like I could barely get out the part about, you know, in sickness and in health, because I know what that looks like now. I know what that feels like. But the gift in all of this coming from the piercings, you know, the Good Fridays to the Easter Sundays, like a reading, something that Brian wrote, he talked about Good Fridays to Easter Sundays and that the faithful know these.
Like this is the biggest, most significant Easter Sunday of my life is my marriage. Because it's like all those tiny yeses, all those tiny choices, all those piercings and then, you know, trying to seek the Lord with all my heart through all the ways, through hopefully holy friendships, through vulnerability, through retreats, through prayer, through sacraments, through the sacrament of confession. And most of all, I'd have to say is
in the utter emptying of my heart and my mind to the Lord and sharing that honestly, because I've said this many times, there's this saying and it sounds maybe tripe, but like you're only as sick as your secrets. It's from, I've heard it in many podcasts and people have been in AA before, but it's true. It's like,
the more I am emptied of myself and the more honest I am with the Lord and then therefore with Brian or therefore with a priest in confession or with my friends who I try to choose my friends very wisely that they point me towards God and towards Brian and hopefully towards sanctification. And so by the grace of God, like, by his grace seeking him because God draws us to Christ that's in scripture, by that grace it's like.
that's the Easter Sunday because then I experienced this love and this firm foundation, this cornerstone that is clearly not a Brian and me, but because by the grace of God, we've both made all these tiny yeses for all these years. It's like it's knowing that a little bit more. It's like understanding the love of Christ, the love of God a little bit more.
Fr. Jon (44:52.584)
I really appreciate the rawness of that answer and to just reverence the depth of your love for each other that has come specifically through the cross. The word that comes to mind to summarize that is transparency. I don't know if this encapsulates both of your thoughts in a way because whether it's
learning from change or from just the growth in self-understanding, understanding the other and the different dynamics that lead to that. One of the attributes of God is that he's all-knowing, he's omniscient. But that's not just outside of himself, that's also within.
Lindy Wynne (45:46.682)
And that's not just outside of himself, it's also the God head the Trinity, and so there's a few free experiences within God and so for your share, I miss...
Fr. Jon (45:50.662)
the Godhead within the Trinity. And so there's like this perfect transparency within God. And so for you to share like this growing awareness of yourself, awareness of the other, and your willingness to enter into that, I think, you know, that's you're becoming more God-like. And, you know, I think it's fair to say like this is part of the beauty of
of this journey that you're on is becoming more like God, right? That's the, as Saint Iraneus said, the glory of God is man fully alive.
Fr. Jon (48:23.976)
So this podcast will be published for the world to hear, for all eternity, at least in theory. What would you say to your children, having had 25 years in marriage, not necessarily knowing what their future is, but obviously your life is a witness for them, but what would you want to share?
with them on this occasion of your anniversary.
Lindy Wynne (49:03.924)
Um, that's an interesting question because I'm going to try to answer it in the way I'd actually answer it. our two older children have special needs and then our youngest is just 10. So I'd want them to know that, um, I really love their mom. I really love her a lot that, um, that I will not leave her. That'll be with her. Um, that
I hope that if they meet someone special, it's kind of what we have that they get to. Hopefully we've modeled something for them to follow.
I'd want them to know that our strength is rooted in our faith.
Lindy Wynne (49:55.856)
And I'd also want them to know that Lindy's my best friend and I really enjoy being with her and I really love her and value her. And I'm excited to be with her.
Lindy Wynne (50:15.728)
I would say that I want them to know that we chose you. We chose you. And that I know that sometimes they may have questions in their minds or in their hearts or that they don't understand certain things, maybe even from their own stories. And that I can't answer all of those things. We can do our best to journey with them. But what I can tell them is that
they are chosen and that you, each one of you is loved in a way by us that is forever and that is indescribable. And the thing that affirms my choice to marry daddy the most is looking at them.
Lindy Wynne (51:08.968)
When I look at them, when I look at you.
I feel like I experience God in the most profound of ways and that I know what love is because my heart swells with a love that I could never explain to you in words. I could never tell you how loved you are. But I hope you know by the way that we've been brought together as a family and all of our moments together, all of our moments together, I hope
deep within you that you know that love and that you live in that love and ultimately God's love. And I also want you to know that we each chose you. two of my favorite memories of 25 years with daddy is when he said that we should definitely start by adopting through foster care and that started our journey to you.
H and then watching daddy take care little E of your birth mommy and going grocery shopping for her and even getting fruit when he hates fruit because he was getting fruit for her and caring for her that he was really caring for you. I hope you know how deeply loved you are by daddy too and that we're always here for you. Even when we leave this earth we are always
We're always praying for you and hoping for you and our love lasts forever.
Fr. Jon (52:49.49)
Brian and Lindy, everybody. Happy 25 years. having again, journey with you all, I love your family a lot. I love both of you very much. if you're watching this on YouTube, you will see none of us have dry eyes at this point in the podcast. But praise God that he touches us in powerful ways and love is worth shedding tears for. So thank you for all that you've shared. Hopefully for those of you listening.
you're coming away with, you know, not just tears, but with some hope for your own lives and maybe even some good advice. And may we above all continue to trust ourselves to our Heavenly Father that in our own vocation, He helps us to be faithful to say yes, to be open to change, to grow in transparency, and to know that whatever trials and joys that come our way,
Lindy Wynne (53:41.776)
transparency to try this in space.
Fr. Jon (53:49.938)
that God has just this amazing plan. And none of you wouldn't be here where you both are today without each of those small steps. So how about as we close to offer a blessing upon you and especially to all married couples, but maybe those of you too who are discerning or who are finding yourself struggling, we offer this prayer for you. First ask the Holy Spirit.
Lindy Wynne (53:57.394)
Thanks for listening.
Fr. Jon (54:19.538)
or his guidance and wisdom.
Fr. Jon (54:29.96)
Father of Love.
Fr. Jon (54:34.066)
Thank you for showing us through your son Jesus and through our mother Mary.
Fr. Jon (54:44.84)
the depth, the width.
Fr. Jon (54:51.268)
your love toward us.
Fr. Jon (54:56.264)
for all those who you have called to enter into the covenant of marriage.
May this very moment they hear this message be an experience, an encounter, a new encounter with you.
and that fundamental identity of love as your beloved sons and daughters.
Fr. Jon (55:22.918)
and in that identity and through the power of the Spirit through which we live, may you help all married couples to be faithful to you and to each other.
Fr. Jon (55:43.026)
to grow within them the gift of saying yes, of offering themselves for the other.
Fr. Jon (55:55.708)
the courage to be vulnerable.
and entrusting themselves, surrendering themselves to you.
Fr. Jon (56:05.564)
with confident faith in your providential care and in your desire to raise us to divine life.
through the intercession of all the saints, especially the married couples who have gone before us, have modeled that love.
Fr. Jon (56:29.224)
May the blessing of Almighty God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit come down on you and remain with you forever. Amen.
Fr. Jon (56:46.226)
Thank you for this opportunity. And, Lindy, do you want to close us off here?
Lindy Wynne (56:56.913)
Thank you so much everyone for gathering and Father Jon, thank you for being here. We love you too. You are a great blessing to us, to this Mamas in Spirit community and really to the world. And cannot wait to be together again next time. You can go to mamasinspirit.com, M-A-M-A-S, inspirit.com for many more faith-filled podcasts. This is Lindy Wynne with Mamas in Spirit. May God bless you and yours always.