Helping As I was Helped with Judy Orr, CEO Catholic Charities Nashville
“That whole sense of loss reverberated again.”
Judy Orr, CEO of Catholic Charities Nashville, lost both of her parents before turning 20. She then faced a different kind of loss when Judy found out she was pregnant with the man she believed she would marry.
However, he told her he wasn’t ready.
Judy sought wise counsel from her parish priest. He recommended she see a counselor at Catholic Charities. Judy followed his advice.
Judy’s beloved son is now grown. As a single mom, she met and married her husband. They have been married for 39 years and have two more children together.
Judy also serves as the CEO of the nonprofit that helped her: Catholic Charities.
Listen to this final mini retreat in a podcast in the “Women of Wisdom” series. Discover how God calls us to help others, just as we have been helped.
May we love as God loved us first.
Learn more about Catholic Charities Nashville at cctenn.org.
Transcript:
Lindy Wynne (00:00)
Welcome to Mamas in Spirit, a podcast pointing you towards God in everything you are and everything you do. I'm Lindy Wynne and it's a blessing to be with you. Hello everyone and welcome. Welcome to this mini retreat in a podcast. And my heart is so filled as we begin today for two reasons. One is I just returned from leading a mini retreat from across the country in California and just to be able to gather at the well.
the retreat was Sisters at the Well, based on the story of the Woman at the Well to be able to gather as sisters at the well and to be so incredibly transparent about how God has been at work, how the Holy Spirit has been at work in our hearts and our lives, and especially in the moments where we felt most vulnerable, where we've sensed our fragility as human beings and our total dependence on God, because ultimately we are dependent on God's grace. And the second reason is because I am here
with a woman that I feel just very inspired by because Catholic Social Teaching is so important to me and is at the heart of our faith and that we truly walk with and accompany one another and especially the most poor and vulnerable. We're all poor and vulnerable in some way and yet some people are literally poor and are vulnerable in ways that can almost be unfathomable at times depending on what our walk, our journeys have been in our lives. So.
Judy Orr is the CEO of Catholic Charities Nashville and Judy, thank you so much for joining us.
Judy Orr (01:28)
Thank you, Lindy. It's really an honor to be here. And I also want to thank your listeners for joining us today.
Lindy Wynne (01:35)
Well, and I think you being here not only by sharing your own story, because I think so often, actually, last week's podcast guest, Katy Lane, reminded us that often our test is our testimony and you being willing to share your own walk, which I imagine compelled you to also in some way to continue this walk in this pilgrimage towards Christ in the work that you do. It's very moving. So thank you so much, Judy. And in that spirit in the Holy Spirit, I would love for you to open us in prayer.
Judy Orr (02:03)
⁓ thank you so much for that. I ⁓ have a favorite prayer that I found maybe 20 years ago, and it's a nun's prayer. came from a convent, and I don't quite remember where I found it, but it goes like this. It's called Morning Offering. Dear Lord, I do not know what will happen to me today. I only know that nothing will happen that was not foreseen by you and directed to my greater good for all eternity. I adore your holy and unfathomable plans.
and submit to them with all my heart.
Lindy Wynne (02:33)
Amen in the name of the Father Son, Holy Spirit. Amen. That is so beautiful and two things struck me deeply today from that prayer and that's the first part is today is this walk one day at a time and to be so present to the Lord as the Lord is always present to us and then to surrender ourselves to his will in our life rather than our own well and so Judy Thank you for sharing that beautiful prayer and I would love a copy of it because I will post it on social media
Judy Orr (02:34)
Isn't that incredible?
Lindy Wynne (03:01)
And then also I would just love for you to start at the beginning of your story.
Judy Orr (03:05)
Well, I came from a big Catholic family. My upbringing was Catholic. My education was Catholic. I was at the sort of the tail end of a big family. And so ⁓ when I was a young adult, by the time I was 20, I had unfortunately lost both of my parents. And so my mom passed away when I was 19, almost 20 years old. And of course, I turned to my faith, you know, to try to
you know, understand and find peace, you know, in that loss. And I was grateful to have my siblings and extended family. But, you know, when you lose a parent really, no matter what age, you kind of lose your safety net. And so, you know, there's the sense of, you know, some people even call it being an adult orphan, which I can kind of relate to because you're on your own. And yet, you know, you so often take for granted that safety net that is your parents, you know, whether it's financial or emotional or
just an anchor, a place to go home. And so not having that made that period of my life really, really vulnerable. And I had started college, I was working and going to school and eventually I was able to go full time. And I met a nice young man and we were dating a couple of years by the time, a couple of years had passed after my mother had passed.
We talked about marriage and we grew very close. then I found out that I was pregnant. And I thought, well, this is not a problem because we were already planning to be married. But unfortunately, he was not ready. And it became pretty tumultuous. And then unfortunately, I discovered that there was actually another woman in the picture. So this was a really, really challenging situation.
you know, that whole sense of loss reverberated all over again, because I felt like all of this that I had invested in for a couple of years with this person ⁓ was just evaporating. And I didn't know what to do. didn't know anybody had been through this experience. you know, so what did I do? I leaned into my faith. I turned to my pastor, who was actually Father Fleming at the cathedral in Nashville and, ⁓ you know, asked him what
you know, what can I do? What should I do? And his advice was to go talk to the counselor at Catholic Charities. And so that's what I did. So for many months, I ⁓ was counseled by a lovely woman, Anne, you know, considered various options about the baby. You know, still hope that we'd get married. And, but I wanted to be fully informed and I considered placing my child with a family.
And then ultimately, as the time played out with my pregnancy, I really felt so hurt by what I had lost in that relationship, but also not having my mother to turn to, that I began to feel that this was God literally sending me an angel to help fill that hole where I lost my parents early.
and also to help me heal from these losses. And, you I know a lot of, you know, young people go through losses like this. you know, being able to find a counselor at an agency like Catholic Charities, you know, was just a game changer, you know, to have somebody that really cared about me and didn't make judgments and was just trying to help me find what those different paths could be. And then to ultimately, you know, help me choose what was right for me.
Lindy Wynne (06:26)
Judy, thank you so much for sharing all of that. And you are such a well-processed and integrated woman, and I'd love to dig in deeper, really to three parts of your story. And so the first part is the loss of your parents, and also the loss of your father. When did you lose your father?
Judy Orr (06:46)
Well, he died in his mid-50s and that had been several years before I became pregnant.
Lindy Wynne (06:51)
and then you lost your mom. And you lost both of them by the time you were 20 years old.
Judy Orr (06:54)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Lindy Wynne (06:58)
Can you talk to me really at the heart of this story is loss and new life? Good Friday to Easter Sunday really like all of our conversion stories and in all stories where God is at work because God is love and we're called to remain in love and that's what I sense in you is this deep remaining in the love of the Lord throughout these years of your life and especially as you've continued to discover that love after the loss of your parents
Can you talk about the loss of your parents and what that experience was like for you and where you have experienced God's love within that, that healing, that grief? Like how did you carry that grief with you because then the grief was compounded?
Judy Orr (07:43)
Yeah, well, you know, I was a pretty independent child, honestly, and as a as a teenager in high school, you know, I like many parents or like many kids tried to keep my distance, you know, with my parents, we weren't super close. And it was when you're in a big family and you've got a lot of older siblings, there's just a different family dynamic, you know, like I have three sons now. And, you know, I'm very close to all of them. And I observe with my children's
children that they're all really close to their parents. But I think I grew up in a time when parents were a little more independent. I don't know if that's the right word. but you know, my siblings did a lot of raising of me, you know, I don't remember a whole lot about my parents when I was little, because we were always playing outdoors, like in the summer or going to school together. And, you know, I got very, very, you know, attached to my siblings who took care of me.
You know, my oldest sister was 13 years older than I. so, you know, again, I kept my distance from my parents, tried to be independent as a teenager. And so I was really just growing closer to my mother as I turned 18 and 19. And I was really optimistic, you know, where we kind of had some distance that this was an opportunity to, you know, that we'd be closer as we got older. So that's why it was particularly painful, you know, when my mother passed away.
⁓ And in that grief, all I knew to do was lean into my faith. And I really did a lot of reading. There's a lot of fascinating books about mysticism and understanding that you can't understand why things happen. like they say sometimes good things happen or bad things happen to good people. And you just have nothing you can do except move on and try to live your life. And when you're young,
You know, there's just so much ahead of you. Like I was in college and, ⁓ you know, I just had to focus on that and lean into it. So there's a degree to which, you know, you have to compartmentalize your grief and kind of move it aside so that you can move on with your life because, know, you know, your time's a waste and you can't just get mired in grief. but I, I really turned a lot to female figures in my life. mean, for example, I had a neighbor.
I lived not far from college and lived in a little neighborhood where a lot of the houses were rented out, but my neighbor was expecting a baby. And this was a year after my mother died. And at one point she said, I'm gonna need a babysitter once the baby comes because she's a nurse and she would go to a shift that started at three. And so she needed a babysitter for a few hours before her.
husband would come home for work. So I said, well, I can take care of your baby. know, I've taken care of babies in my whole life with all the cousins and nieces and nephews. And so we grew very close and she was a really amazing maternal figure. She hadn't grown up in a big family, so she didn't have a lot of experience taking care of young children. But we were like almost like sisters, you know, and then, you know, some year or two later when my son was born, you know, she did the same for me. She did a whole lot of
supporting and caring. so I always say, there's, A, you have to be your own mother sometimes, you know, there's nobody that really knows you like your own mother, but when you lose your mother, you know, you're the next best person that knows you. So sometimes you have to be kind of take care of yourself as if your mother were there and do things for yourself that your mother might've done. And then you also want to turn to
⁓ mother figures and it could be your grandmother, could be your sister, it could be your neighbor, could be a co-worker. But you got to find that, you know, that love and that support and that understanding from other people to replace, you know, that precious person who raised you.
Lindy Wynne (11:17)
Yes, what you're saying, I think is so much at the heart of the matter, of the generosity of God when our hearts and our minds are transformed and are really open. And you, you're spoken this, you've mentioned adoption and many of you know that I'm a mother through the gift of adoption and we're an adoptive family. And so we want and desire so much for that one person in our lives, our
Often our biological mother or whoever's raised us, our mother to be our everything. And yet in reality, that's not the case a lot of the time for so many different reasons. And I teared up when you said sometimes we have to be our own mother because Judy, this is a kind of wild full circle moment for me. I have always tried to glean wisdom from
wisdom figures in my life. I've always been like very, very observant ever since I was a small child. And I remember in my late teens and early twenties, and then I was getting married and I come from a family of divorce and I really felt like I didn't know how to do a lot of things or like how to do them well or how to like love well or, or whatnot. And I don't know about for everybody else, but sometimes on planes, on airplanes, it can be like,
really kind of supernatural experience or like the conversations that can be had. It's like time stand still and no joke about 30 25 30 years ago I sat next to a woman who was much older than me and the advice she gave me which I still remember to this day is sometimes you have to be your own mother.
Judy Orr (12:58)
Wow. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks that.
Lindy Wynne (13:02)
You're not.
Judy Orr (13:03)
Because sometimes I buy myself little gifts, sometimes I buy myself a cupcake. And in those moments, I think this is what my mother would do if she were here.
Lindy Wynne (13:12)
Judy, that is so moving. I saw a little reel on social media the other day and it was of a cupcake and someone said something like, I bought this for myself as if it like for my birthday in case I like in the chance I would have been born on this day. It was not their birthday. But I bought myself this cupcake and I love that because that's at the heart of our faith.
That's really cura personalis, is Ignatian spirituality care for the whole person and caring for oneself and allowing God to love us and and I love the mercy and the maternal love from which you see yourself
Judy Orr (13:49)
Yeah, and I always feel happy when I do those things for myself. And, you know, as I said, I always think, well, if my mother were here, she would certainly get me a gift when she was gone on a trip or if she's out shopping or give me a little surprise. So, you know, we talk about when you lose a loved one, you do lose them in body, but they live on in you, you know, the beautiful aspects of these people you love.
they live on and everyone who touches them. And so when you think that, you know, your beloved family members live on, there is it. You the legacy is they might give you a present through your own hands.
Lindy Wynne (14:26)
Yes, yes, I love what you're saying so much and my husband and I sadly just received some very difficult news about a friend yesterday and really that person's mortality and how much time that person has to live very unexpectedly and young, younger than expected. And he was asking me about my belief in heaven. And that's exactly why I believe in heaven is because I know these people are still with me. Like I sense them with me. And I even talked about recording these mini retreats in a podcast and
how I literally pray for their intercession and I sense them with me. Like I really do. I don't know what else to say. Like I just know, I know I sense it in my soul, my heart.
Judy Orr (15:02)
Yeah.
Yeah, and I don't know if you've experienced this besides the lady on the plane next to you, but it's not uncommon for me, especially in the early years of my loss, to see people out at a grocery store or in public, and they so remarkably look like my mother that you have to do a double take. And it's like, wow, there's God talking to you again and saying, she's still with you.
Lindy Wynne (15:27)
Judy, this is why I think that the Holy Spirit has really led me and Mamas in Spirit to not have a plan for these podcasts because this never would have come up. Like, praise God. Because when I just led that retreat in California, many of you know that a blessed sister in Christ, Carolyn Henry Dreffel, is in heaven. This was my first podcast ever recorded was with her on my knees holding her hands three days before she passed away, seven years ago. And...
I went back to the church that we prayed at together where I met her, where I was on a retreat team with her, all the things. And I just returned to that church over seven years since we recorded that podcast. And I was in mass in the morning before the start of the retreat. And the Mary statue in that church, for whatever reason, I always sit relatively near it and I look upon it and it reminds me so much of her and like,
obviously the blessed mother and like she was and is such a reflection of like just such a beautiful yes and fiat for the Lord even when she was very very sick she said Lord you've given me life I give my life back to you do with it what you will so just this beautiful small f fiat you know imitating the big f fiat of our blessed mother well before the retreat started with our sisters in Christ many other women who love her too I looked over to that
Mary statue and there was a woman that I could only see her profile in the back of her head and she looked just like her. And it was just so beautiful and that woman ended up coming to the retreat and I'd never met her before. And I told her, I told her, I told her I think when the retreat was ending. And I said, my goodness, you look so much like her and it's just such a beautiful consolation. It felt like a touch of heaven.
Judy Orr (16:57)
wow.
my gosh. That's wild.
Yeah, I mean, another way that happens, it's funny that of the seven children in my family, we really don't look like our parents and we don't look like each other. I don't know how that can be happening. But on the other hand, I can look in the mirror sometimes and just think, my gosh, right there in my eyes or in my nose, there's my mother. I look just like my mother or in my siblings. You know, you see little characteristics, you know, of that of that face. And you think, wow.
you know, again, they live on physically right in front of you.
Lindy Wynne (17:44)
Well, and what I love at the heart of what you're sharing, Judy, is that the Lord blesses and sustains and that people we love stay with us to continue to nurture us and to love into us so that we can love and we can love through all the things. And that gets to really the second thing that I wanted to really dive into with you, which is the loss of the man that you thought you were gonna marry that you were having a child with.
I mean, I cannot imagine being that vulnerable because breakups can be painful and heart wrenching and difficult enough. Like I realized as I've gotten older, like sometimes I think maybe we under process some of our breakups in our lives because oftentimes the hope of forever goes into them. Like we date in the hopes that it's going to be a kind of love story in a small way that will reflect God's love for us and be forever. And then they're not that.
And the rejection in that can be very complicated. And as humans, sometimes we tie rejection up into God's love for us, which is not true. That's a lie. And so it can get very complicated in many, many ways. And so for you, this was not just a breakup. This was a breakup with a young man who you were having a baby with and after having lost your parents on this earth. And so can you talk more about
Judy Orr (19:00)
Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (19:06)
that grief and then also the thought of another woman, another person being involved. That's such a layered loss.
Judy Orr (19:14)
Yeah, no, it was a betrayal and really heartbreaking and I was very vulnerable at the time. You know, it's making me think about my work at Catholic Charities because we do meet people all the time in the work that we do who've had the rug pulled out from under them and that was me. And so we think about Catholic Charities or we sometimes we think as individuals of, you know, vulnerable, the vulnerable or the people out there who need
But the truth is all of us end up in a moment where we need somebody. And, you know, it doesn't really matter whether you came from a stable family like mine or not. You know, anyone is really vulnerable to, you know, these shocking disruptive ⁓ things that can happen unexpectedly in your life. And, you know, the good news, I guess, is that, you know, we did stay in touch and he did.
helped me along the way. finished college and after, you know, when our child was two years old, we actually got married. You know, we thought, well, you know, let's let's give it a try. And ⁓ unfortunately, that was ill fated and it did not work out and it was very quickly apparent. And so we did divorce and, you know, I got an annulment later and remarried. my ex-husband then, you know, had a relationship and still does with my son.
And I'm grateful for that. But each of us remarried very soon after and had additional children. And, you know, I've been in a 39 year long marriage now. So all of that upheaval, you know, in my early age where you're starting to wonder, is there something wrong with me? You know, and then years and years of a good solid marriage helps you realize that I'm OK. I just had a misstep early on. And again, we see that in the work we do here and many other nonprofits.
in the area who assist people who might make a bad decision. They don't have enough experience like I did to really understand what your options are and how to interpret all the things that are happening. But again, in every moment, it was me turning back to my pastor for advice as well as the wonderful people in my life who loved me and supported me and helped guide me.
You know, I look back on these many years and realize that, you know, these things happen to a lot, lot of people, most people, and we're not eager to talk about our failures, right? You know, we want everybody to kind of look at us like, you know, I'm sitting here today with you, you know, head of Catholic charities, and I certainly never imagined in a million years I'd run the agency who actually helped me so long ago. But it makes me really understand, you know, and I think there's probably
some of your listeners out there right now, facing these kinds of dilemmas and to know that it was hard work to get my life back on track, you know, to even finish college. It was really, really hard. But I just had to do it. But it was my son who inspired me, you know, said, you know, for him, I have got to do the best I can, you know, to take care of us because I, in those moments, thought I don't know what's going to happen to me. I don't know if, you know, any nice man will ever want to marry me.
And of course, that was wrong. Of course, a nice man did want to marry me he did do that. But, you know, would people hire me? Would I be able to finish school? There's so many questions. You money was a problem. Childcare, of course, challenging. But, you know, you do find people all around you who realize that, you know, these are not, you know, mistakes that you made willfully. They are just things that happen. And, you know, we're all here to help. I call it a
help a fellow traveler on the journey. I mean, if we're not here to do that, why are we here?
Lindy Wynne (22:48)
If we're not here to do that, why are we here? To help a fellow traveler on the journey. And one of the things I'm hearing at the heart of your story, Judy, that I'm deeply moved by and is also very encouraging and affirming to continue to do the same by the grace of God is that your heart has stayed open or even if it's closed by the grace of God, it's been reopened to be loved.
time and time again, even after great loss, even after great trial, even after betrayal, to use the word that you use because that is betrayal. And betrayal is so difficult. It is so incredibly difficult. And then to think that you wondered like, will any man ever love me again? Or will a man ever truly love me and be with you? And now you've experienced that. Before getting into really the third part of your story, can you talk a little bit about that, Judy?
I'd love to know more about the vulnerability of you wondering basically, will I ever be loved again? Because here you were young and with a child and you were not with that dad. And so, or at least after the divorce, you were not with him. And so to wonder like, will I ever have that or will someone ever love me like that? And then to be loved like that, what has that been like for you?
Judy Orr (24:05)
Yeah, you know, I met my husband at work, my now husband, you know, started off as friends and we had more and more in common and, you know, then kind of quietly started having lunch together from time to time. And it was magical. It was magical to find someone that you're so connected with. And, you know, you end up in those early stages of a relationship thinking, you know, how are we different?
How are we the same? What do we have in common? Do we have a future? Do we like the same things? And that was a really fun discovery. But in my case, when I met my husband, my oldest son was four years old. And the funny thing was, he was actually made me more attractive to my now husband because he loved children so much and he had such an immediate connection with my little boy.
playing baseball and you know doing sports and things like that. That there were times when we would the three of us would be out having lunch or something and they were so simpatico. I thought I bet people think he's the dad and I'm the girlfriend you know because they did have a really really wonderful connection and that was just so encouraging and so I mean such a great gift from God to find a partner.
who actually he also chose to join my religion, the Catholic religion, and we had two more sons together and now we're grandparents together. it's just, I mean, we actually had our anniversary this past week and I woke up the next morning after that anniversary thinking, gosh, 39 years ago, we couldn't have envisioned this beautiful life we have with these grandchildren. Actually we were babysitting that next morning.
And I thought this is almost, you know, just hard when you're on this side of your story instead of that side. It's it's very hard to visualize what's going to happen. And we have been so fortunate, you know, to have two of our three children local and to have these little grandchildren three months old and three years old and. Just amazing, amazing.
Lindy Wynne (26:14)
How full circle to think, you said three years old, and I think your son was four years old when you met your now husband. How full circle that must be. And that really touches on the third part of your story with your son, when you your oldest son, when you got pregnant. Judy, could you talk more about that and about God's provision for you and that draw as a mother through the gift of adoption?
And you being out that crossroads that you could have chosen adoption But you chose to keep your son and what I thought just in reality is that if you had chosen adoption That would have also been a great loss for your son. There's loss in adoption and Then there's the gift of love like it's a it's a redemptive story in and of itself when it's chosen yet. It does start
with loss and I think I feel really comfortable saying that because I think it's important to own that in a sense and so it touches me that you chose to raise him and that you really fought to be stable for him because adoption isn't adoption is the right option in many circumstances yet in yours it was not and so could you speak more to that?
Judy Orr (27:29)
Yeah, and I really, really struggled with that decision. It certainly seemed right in that moment ⁓ in those years. The idea of an open adoption was still very, very new and with the Catholic Charities program, which now does open adoption, but in those days you could choose a profile of the parents who would that your child would be placed with. you there was no guarantee that those families would
stay in touch with you or let you know how your child turned out or any of that. And that was really the hard part is not knowing. And I think that's why open adoption now is such a great idea and that people can agree to at least have, you know, updates and information. Because in the end, because I had experienced the loss, it was just too much for me to accept more loss and to not know what happened to my boy. And another part about that experience is that
I made the decision not to share with him what really happened in his early years. And so he grew up knowing that, you his dad and I were divorced and that, you know, he had a stepdad and two brothers. And it wasn't until he was a married man that I sat down with him and his wife. And that was, he was in his mid to late twenties to explain, you know, this origin story, because I felt like he should know. And, you know, what I...
You know, what I said to him is every great thing that ever happened to you, whether it was catching a touchdown pass, whether it was graduating from high school, whether it was getting married to this beautiful woman, I always thought to myself, this would have been someone else's joy. And instead it was mine. And each time I was so grateful for these beautiful moments in his life, but he didn't know that.
until he was much older and I explained it. And that day that I sat down and told them this, I cried and cried and cried and I couldn't stop crying because I had held so much loss in my heart until I could share that with him, my precious baby. And so I said, now you understand why I'm so protective, why I love you so much and how...
you know, what you mean to me. Now you understand why I'm so crazy, you know, and love you so crazy.
Lindy Wynne (29:40)
Now you understand why I love you so crazy. Judy, what you're saying, kind of being on the opposite side as a mom through the gift of adoption, makes so much sense to me in my heart because I think about these things often. Like I revel, I revel in our children and we still have one at home, the 10 year old. And
Every day, literally, we're finishing this summer and I think, okay, we have seven more by the grace of God that she's still living with us because I revel in her every day and I think of her birth family and I think about the joy and the intimacy and the love and all the goodness. changed my life, Judy. Our youngest birth mother chose us and she chose adoption.
our other two children, they were removed long before we ever met them and their, the parental rights were legally removed long before we were ever part of their story. But I think of them and I think of the birth parents and I have such a love for them, such a profound love for them, yet I also hurt for them. I even hurt for like the biological grandparents because...
of all this goodness because the blessing and the gift of life, which is what you were blessed with with your son, is the gift of life, the gift of new life.
Judy Orr (31:02)
Yeah, and then I had that wonderful opportunity to have two more boys. So I have, you know, three grownup boys and, you know, two of them have children of their own. It's just unbelievable. I mean, there's this word largesse. I mean, I just feel so much, I'm just so much bounty in my life, so much love. And, you know, we talk about loss and I have that very long perspective of really profound loss and.
You know, I keep reminding myself, well, I should say a dear friend of mine passed away last week and so I'm grieving her loss. But then I remember, you know, I keep having new people come into my life to love like these babies, you know, these grandchildren and other friends that you meet in different contexts. you know, there's sort of no end to wonderful people who can feel that that hold in your heart when you have loss and you just have to
cultivate those new relationships. And that can be work sometimes, to do that, to make the time for friends and for family. But that's where you really sort of patch up your broken heart.
Lindy Wynne (32:01)
That's where you patch up your broken heart. That is so beautiful, Judy. And when my husband and I were moving across the country and we knew almost no one here in Tennessee, we came from California. I stopped by this little chapel that had kind of been a sign, for lack of a better word, for us to move here. And I wrote up a prayer, because you can hang your prayers on the wall, and I said, for all those we love in California and all those we will love in Tennessee. Because it's like that faithfulness to know that God is generous and God is
good and there are that many phenomenal human beings in this world and people who just love the Lord with all their hearts and my goodness we just had a gathering recently and I shared that story with a bunch of our friends and I said here you are here you are the people we love because it's true Judy that when we allow God by God's grace
Judy Orr (32:37)
Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (32:51)
to chisel our hearts open, back open, because I think that's why we're called to be like children, because babies are very loving and very open. Small children are very loving and very open.
Judy Orr (33:03)
Yeah, well,
and I have to mention, you as you talk about it, I've been spending a lot of time talking about all the love I've received from different people, you know, and I have certainly had lost. But what I want to talk about too with you is how, you know, over time, God worked with me. you know, I had a very successful career as a publication or, you know, public relations professional.
But as my children got to college age, I kept thinking, you know, I want to do something else and I really want to help people. You know, I was helped by so many people, including that wonderful counselor so long ago, Catholic Charities. You know, how can I, you what can I do? And my heart was moved to return to graduate school of all things. I never imagined I would go to graduate school, but I learned about social workers in the course of, you know, several different situations, including that one. And I thought a social worker,
That's what I want to be when I grow up. So I returned to graduate school around the time I turned 50 and I earned a master's degree in social work with the idea that, you know, I'm going to go be a social worker, you know, and instead, who knew the Lord was going to lead me right back to Catholic charities where I could use all of my years of management experience to run this very agency, you know, that's still helping.
many expectant and young mothers and young families and young fathers. you know, that's one of the most gratifying things that I have done in my whole career is one, to help people this way through our agency, but also to help the professionals who work for us, you know, to guide them in their careers and in their ambitions. And boy, the people who self-select to work in a field like this are just among the best coworkers.
you can ever have. It's incredible blessing.
Lindy Wynne (34:48)
That's so amazing and I love how you talk about how much you were helped and poured into and then you felt so drawn and I love you said at 50 is that when you pursued the degree that's so inspiring and I hope everyone listening is really allowing that to sink in that like God is always calling us into new life and God is always calling us to serve him which means to share love because God is love and so Judy can you talk about
any personal stories from your work with Catholic Charities? I know that we had Valeria on, which anybody can go back and listen to. She came from Ukraine during the war and escaped just in time and safety with her husband and young children and was helped by Catholic Charities and now works at Catholic Charities. And that's just a profound story in and of itself. And Judy, I'd love to know you being there. Like, what?
How do you see God's love unfolding and how do you sense God calling you and how do you sense God calling you to be there and to accompany and to love the people that you both serve and you talked about working with as well?
Judy Orr (35:55)
Yeah, well, it certainly is hard work. It's very, very emotional. And you do encounter people who are really, really having so many challenges and it is heartbreaking. I just, I don't know. I literally see people in the hallway who have come in to get help. And even last week down the hallway is my office from our front door. And I could be upstairs, but...
no, I want to be downstairs where I see the people who come. And so there was a baby crying rather loudly and my grandmother's heart was being called. I could not put that baby's cry out of my mind. So I walked down the hallway and the young woman was speaking to our receptionist and I heard this. I saw her push a stroller towards something and I saw the baby, but it turned out that there's a brother.
helping her with the baby. the baby, so the little boy was maybe ⁓ six or eight years old, but I looked at her and I said, I'm a grandmother. And I looked at that little baby and I said, sweetie, it's okay. It'll be all right. It's all right. And he just quieted down and locked eyes with me and started, he was about a year or two old. He was wiping the tears and he started playing peekaboo with me. And while his mother could finish filling out her paperwork, ⁓
It was a great joy to be able to just quiet that child. She was very self-conscious, of course, and we are happy to have crying babies here. If we can help a mama with a crying baby, or again, dads, we get the families too. It's just so gratifying. So I don't know, Lindy, what you asked me, but that story is just one of thousands I could tell.
Lindy Wynne (37:29)
Yes, I love that so much. And I love your draw to go to the baby and to the mama and the sibling. And that's Christ. Christ draws. God draws us to Christ and to share Christ's love and to take those even tiny risks to share God's great, profound, endless love. Is there ever a time, Judy,
I know for me, I've only experienced this a couple times in my life where you really felt like in a sense like you were looking into Christ's eyes or that you really saw Christ in someone else that you encountered through the work that you're doing.
Judy Orr (38:06)
Gosh, I love that you asked that question. So I have a coworker, he's been here several years. He's an older gentleman. And some of you may know that, you know, our agency lost some funding, you know, with the new administration. And so one of our programs is in the process of winding down and will end in September. And so one of the people working in that program, this goes back now many, many months, maybe December or January.
And I was just going out the door of the building the way I normally do. And this particular individual happened to be on the other side and opened the door. And he stopped me and he said, I just want you to know that you have some very hard decisions ahead of you in the future. And I just want you to know I'm praying for you. I was so struck because there was no way he could know.
what the future held. I mean, as it unfolded another month or two later, it became very obvious that I would have to make decisions about laying off some of our workers. But I actually walked back to my desk that day and thought, I have just looked into the face of Christ. This is Christ talking to me through these people who are so supportive of me and loving of me. But for him to say, I know you have difficult decisions to make in the next few months and
I'm praying for you. Sadly, he is one of the people who will lose his job in this. And I don't know how we're gonna live without him. He's the sweetest person. But so many of them that are getting light off are just such dedicated, loving people who are only doing this work because they also are driven by a deep, deep spirit of faith, a love for other people.
Lindy Wynne (39:39)
Thank you so much for sharing that story, Judy. And it also reminds me that when we choose to truly engage in our life of faith and we're called to give our lives away like Christ, it's messy. And it's got to be heartbreaking to have to lay people off and let people go. And I've had some heart to hearts because one of my brother-in-laws, he, he supervises a number of people in a different field. And we've talked about that before. Like you can't take the human.
out of humanity. Like, we try to separate at times historically, like, professional and personal. And I think that the pandemic took some of this away beginning with that video that many of you may have seen of that man that was being interviewed on BBC about something super intellectual and then enrolls his children on live television during that interview.
and his family scurrying to figure out what to do on BBC and him fearing for his job, but then him becoming like a beloved icon. But that is so true. It's like you can't take the heart. You can't take the soul out of everything that we do. And so Judy Bayou being the CEO of Catholic Charities and being called into social work, there's heartbreak that is involved with that as well as these beautiful moments of witnessing Christ's redemption. So
I just want to thank you for who you are and for your beautiful testimony. And I also just want to know, Judy, before we close, if there's just really anything else on your heart that you want to share with everyone, because we've actually been in the middle of a series, Woman of Wisdom, and I just feel like you have such wisdom and you've been so open to the Holy Spirit and you spoke of mysticism very early on in your lifetime and just really being drawn, I can tell.
close to the heart of God. is there anything else you'd like to share?
Judy Orr (41:28)
Well, I would tell people, know, lean into your future, believe in yourself, find those people that will reinforce that message for you. Because when I look back to when I was very young, you know, 18, 19, 20, and I had even people in jobs, you know, my first entry level jobs, and they would say, you're going places, you've got a great future. And you're like, ah, they're just saying that stuff. You don't really know what it means. But in hindsight,
I look back and think, wow, those people saw something in me that I didn't see, my ability to succeed. So I would say you got to believe in it. Again, you might know people, you might need to turn to an agency, like a Catholic Charities, where there are people who are giving their life's work to do this important work of walking alongside of others who need a friend, neighbor to neighbor.
And so just don't be afraid to find help and be humble, you know, to accept it because you will have your moment. Don't be too proud. You will have your moment when you get to pay it forward. And that's what I get to do in the work that I do at Catholic Charities.
Lindy Wynne (42:38)
Yeah, that's so beautiful. Thank you, Judy. Lean into our future. I love that so much because oftentimes we lean away out of fear and all the things in parenting and looking at our own futures whatnot. And you just show your very walk shows how how God continues to call and God continues to draw us in. And last week with Katie Lane, I encourage everyone when this mini retreats over to go back and listen to that one, because you talked, Judy, about entering this
graduate degree program at 50 and Katie Lane left her career as an art teacher in public school and now teaches art at Rim in the Inn in the Nashville area and Bible study and whatnot and you both are just beautiful examples of fully alive, fully engaged lives for the Lord and that's just so so beautiful Judy. So thank you so much and thank you so much for being here.
Judy Orr (43:31)
⁓ I appreciate it so much. you know, every time I tell my story, it's more healing. You know, at first it's kind of embarrassing, but eventually you get to a point where you're like, you know, this is going to help someone else. And that's what makes it all worthwhile.
Lindy Wynne (43:45)
Yes, and your story is so beautiful, Judy. And that is one of the big things that's on my heart about mamas and spirit. And I've heard that before by the grace of God is that I understand the vulnerability of everybody sharing and I share too. And when I go give her treats and talks and all the things I share so transparently and so deeply and I tremble, I'm usually at mass before it starts and I'm always trembling at mass. Like, my gosh, Lord, but if this is your will.
Yes, yes, because it's your will. And so my prayer is that it is a healing experience to share on Mamas in spirit for everybody who comes on. So that is a great offering from you. So thank you so much. And in that spirit, can you please close us in prayer?
Judy Orr (44:26)
Yeah, I have another favorite prayer and you know if you're Catholic or if you grew up Catholic you might have known this prayer, the Memorari. And I love it because you know when you look for a model of motherhood who else is better than the Blessed Mother? And so this is the Memorari. Remember, most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection implored thy help.
or sought thy intersection was left unaided. Inspired by this confidence, we fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, our mother. To thee do we come, before thee we stand, sinful and sorrowful. O mother of the word incarnate, despise not our petitions, but in your mercy, hear and answer them. Amen.
Lindy Wynne (45:12)
Amen. Judy, thank you so much. And I have to say, I sure hope I get to have more cups of coffee with you. Because Judy and I don't live far apart. Many of our guests on Mamas in Spirit do. And thank you, everyone, for being here and coming to gather with me. And Judy, I just pray that our hearts are all gathered together and lifted right into the sacred heart of Jesus and that we continue to love.
Judy Orr (45:19)
Hahaha!
Lindy Wynne (45:39)
Passionately love one another passionately as Judy's just talked about you can go to mamas in spirit.com for many more faithful podcasts also I get requests for specific podcasts like this one centers in loss and there's themes of of being pregnant when young and unmarried there seems of of helping others and staying fully engaged in in every season of life and God's constant call our small fiat That's the Lord and so much more so
If there's something specific that you or someone you love needs help with or struggling with, are over 300 mini retreats in a podcast now and I'm happy to send you a very specific mini retreat if there's something that you really need or someone you love needs. Can't wait to be together again next time. This is Lindy Wynne with Mamas in Spirit. May God bless you and yours always.