Spiritual Maturity with Shantel Dudley
"We often gain spiritual maturity through the hard times, the rough seasons of our lives.”
Shantel Dudley is a mother to 18 children: four biological kids, three stepchildren, and 11 children with special medical needs from foster care.
Shantel is no stranger to tough times. She has “rocked six children into heaven.”
At her lowest point, Shantel lay in bed, afraid of what might happen next. She started watching videos of inspiring Christian women who faced the hardest losses, remained honest and faithful, and continued to be used by God.
Shantel is one of these inspiring women herself!
Listen to this mini retreat podcast and let your heart be set on fire with love of Christ. Explore God’s call in your life, understand how He's always present and loving—even when you feel like you're not measuring up—and learn how to root your identity and life in Him.
Be blessed with greater clarity about “who you are and whose you are.”
Lindy Wynne (00:01)
Welcome to Mamas in Spirit, a podcast pointing you towards God in everything you are and everything you do. I'm Lindy Wynne and it's a blessing to be with you. Hello everyone and welcome to this mini retreat in a podcast. Welcome to this gathering of our hearts and souls together with the one who loves us most. And even as I said my intro today and I always say it live when I'm recording because it re-centers me and I made that, that.
intro just came to my heart seven years ago when Mama's in Spirit was put on my heart this podcast by the Lord, which I never could have imagined. And it is so just authentic and authentically myself. And it still helps center me and brings me right back really to the heart of the Lord where we all want to be. And today when I was saying it, it was like a re-release and surrender of my heart to God's. And today is such a reminder of the goodness of God when we are in God's will.
and in his will rather than our own because I could have never dreamed up where my life would be and how I would be doing this right now. And today who I would be doing this with Shantel Dudley. Shantel thank you so much for being with us.
Shantel Dudley (01:12)
Thank you for having me, Lindy.
Lindy Wynne (01:15)
Well, and I want to call you Minnesota because I want to tell you all, yeah, I really should say I want to tell y'all how we all met because I am representing the state of Tennessee. So Shantel and I were both nominated for our states for American Mothers, a beautiful nonprofit organization that does tremendous works and really encourages motherhood in our nation and just the beauty of motherhood in all the different ways. And we're going to be touching on that today too. So
Shantel Dudley (01:16)
There we go.
you
Lindy Wynne (01:45)
I was nominated by a beautiful friend Rainer who's been on Mamas in Spirit and she and I went together to Puerto Rico this year as two different moms for the state of Tennessee for two different years. And that's where I met Shantel who was representing and is representing the state of Minnesota. And Shantel, I loved you from the moment I met you. You are just a treasure.
Shantel Dudley (02:08)
It was an instant connection, wasn't it? It was wonderful. And there were so many wonderful ladies there. And it was a pleasure getting to know you and now carrying on this friendship.
Lindy Wynne (02:11)
Yes.
Yes, exactly. And Shantel did not know this, but I admired Shantel before we ever met. Because I read about you and we I think I read about you because we were on a zoom together and I was like, who is she? Like, there's just a beautiful light of the Lord that shines through you. You you come as you are, which gives everybody else permission to come as we are. That's like one of the most beautiful gifts that ever was and it to me is like so Christ centered and is in our gospel.
and then I read about your life. So before we open in prayer, I want you to tell everybody about your family briefly and your motherhood.
Shantel Dudley (02:57)
Alright, well, usually people have to pick their jaw off the floor a little bit when I tell them that I am a mother to 18 children. So that is kind of my big wow moment, but I am actually, and I have altered that just a smidge because I am actually the mother to 19 children, 18 that are in Tribe Dudley. And then we have one that adopted us as an adult.
Lindy Wynne (03:24)
That's so beautiful and how did you become a mother?
Shantel Dudley (03:26)
Yeah.
How did I become a mother? You know, I had a rough childhood growing up, but I always wanted to be a mother. I was a caregiver from the time I was very, very young and I couldn't wait to be a mom. So I ended up getting married and I have four beautiful bio children. I have three children ⁓ that were brought into my life from my marriage to Kent. And we adopted
11 special needs medically complex children from the foster care system.
Lindy Wynne (03:58)
Yes.
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that because clearly everyone can hear how exciting it is to be able to delve into your heart and how the Lord worked in you to get you here. So in that spirit, in the Holy Spirit, let us open in prayer. Name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Amen. Dearest Lord, you are redemption itself. You are redemption itself. And I know that is so much.
Shantel Dudley (04:02)
Thank
Lindy Wynne (04:25)
at the story of Shantel's life, but it's also the very life of Christ and why you sent your son to manifest your love in this world. And that is also what we are called to do to follow Christ, to leave everything, to surrender our very beings truly and really to be in you and of you. And so Lord, I pray as we gather today that this time is just that. It's a time for us to return to you, a time for us to be with you so that we can listen to you ultimately.
in the intimacy of our own hearts of how you are calling us forward today to share, to manifest your holy love. In your name we pray, amen. In the of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen. So Shantel, I'd love for you to start at the beginning of this part of your story.
Shantel Dudley (05:12)
Okay, sounds good. Well, when I was a teenager, I went to public school and our teacher had a lady come in and she was actually a missionary over in Africa and she worked at an orphanage and she would rock this very, very sick babies, the AIDS babies, the drug addicted babies. And I remember a little seed being planted in my heart at that time. And I said, that's what I want to do.
Life happened. I did not happen to go into that. ⁓ Had kind of walked away for a while and eventually grew up, got married, divorced. And then we were sitting, I married my husband Kent, we're going on 21 years of marriage, and we were in a church.
And the pastor and his wife really had a heart for adoption. They had adopted some children. There were other families in the church that had adopted some children. Excuse me. And they were up on stage dedicating their baby Tristan to the Lord. They adopted him knowing that he was not going to live. He just had a little little brain stem was all he had. His brain never developed and they were told they would have a few weeks with him. So they pretty much just wanted to rock him into heaven.
And it was at that moment, this nudging, this urging, whatever you want to call it, hit my heart. And it was like, that's what you're supposed to do. And so I tapped my husband's leg and leaned over and I said, honey, I think we're supposed to adopt. Now his side of the story is he'll say, he looked at me, said, go home, take two aspirins, lay on the couch and that feeling should go away. It really is what he pretty much said.
Lindy Wynne (06:58)
You
Shantel Dudley (07:01)
And so what I did is I just went in prayer and said, I'm not going to bring this up to my husband. I am a woman that does not like to go on her emotions. And so I just said, Lord, if you put this on my heart, you'll put it on his heart. If not, it's not meant to be. And I left it alone, didn't bring it up again. And it was a few weeks later, he said, honey, show me the pictures. Let's talk about it. And so one by one, we started adopting children.
We knew that we wanted special needs kids. I had an uncle with Down syndrome He had an uncle with Down syndrome and our oldest son is special needs and he's actually 43 and still lives with us and So that's what we saw that's what we thought we were saying yes to was special needs, you know you
You say yes to the Lord and then you write all these conditions down and you let him know what you will and will not do, right? And he just sits up there and chuckles and says, okay, thanks for letting me know. ⁓ But he had a plan in it. And so one by one, we just kept getting matched with these medical children, these complex kids, ⁓ something that I knew nothing about. And.
But we were obedient. We said yes. And so one by one, we started adding children. And then eventually we've added 11 medically complex children. So we deal with trachs. We've had three trachs. We've had 10 feeding tubes. So all of them, but one had a feeding tube and then neuro children. we are actually in Bemidji where we used to live, Bemidji, Minnesota. We were considered the pediatric ICU.
and the hospital would call us about kids that they couldn't even have at the hospital and wanted to know if we had room in our home for a child. So we were actually the pediatric ICU of Bemidji at the time. ⁓
With that, not knowing all of the plans that God has for us, we said yes to one child that was palliative care. And it took a long time for us to say yes to her because I didn't want to adopt children to rock them into heaven. I didn't see that that would be healthy for me, healthy for our children, healthy for our grandchildren because it's an emotional toll on us.
And so finally we said yes to a little girl named Rania. She was from Florida knowing that she was palliative care and she was so bad they couldn't even get her to us. ⁓ There was nobody that would transport her from Florida to Minnesota. And so we had to turn our van into a rolling ICU and hire a nurse and that traveled with us ⁓ in order to get her home. So it was, it was a huge endeavor.
She was the first little girl that passed away ⁓ and I Rocked her right into heaven ⁓ and that was very very difficult emotionally still is ⁓ And then a few months later Ten months later our daughter Kaia Wasn't feeling well ⁓ The doctors up here didn't really want to see our children. So we really had to find special doctors ⁓
We're probably at that time we were four hours from the Twin Cities and that's where we did most of our doctoring and we would travel with our kids to the Twin Cities. but Kaia wasn't feeling well. And so we called the local doctor. She was the hospitalist that day at the hospital. And so she said, bring her to the emergency room and we'll take a look at her there. I dropped her and my husband off. let the emergency room doctors know what tests I wanted run.
⁓ what I wanted her checked for. And then I left to drive the eight minutes back home to meet with a social worker for one of our other boys. And as I walked in the door, my phone rang. ⁓ And it was the hospital letting me know that Kaia had passed away in the emergency room, that her heart had quit. And they needed me to get back there because my husband was not doing well. And they needed me to tell them to stop doing CPR.
And that kind of just sent a snowball of events ⁓ with some of our kids. And there were ⁓ five children then after that that had passed away within a few years window. And I shut down emotionally. Like I thought it's time to protect my heart. I can't go through this anymore. And so I got to a place in my life where
I pretty much stayed in my bedroom. The nursing staff and the PCAs, our children, ⁓ would bring the kids into me, into the bedroom. My grandkids would crawl into bed with me and spend time with me in the bedroom because I had just gotten so down, so afraid, I guess, afraid of what might happen next.
And so I began, I am a Christian and a pastor's wife, and I began searching for real life women, leaders, Christian women, speakers that had been through tragic, horrific, horrible things that shook their faith to the core. And I would sit in my room and just watch them and would listen to them speak and realized there wasn't a lot out there.
of this type of, and this measure of grief and still being able to be okay, still being able to be used at the end of my story. And so I ended up starting a conference for women called Real Life Women's Conferences. And I had them throughout the Midwest. And the thing that I wanted to be super transparent about was it's okay to not be okay. God still loves you.
He will still use you. He's still walking through your doubts, through your anger, through your grief. He's still walking with you through it. He's not pushing you away because you're not being good enough. And so that was kind of the overview for my conferences that I was having. And I had those for a few years. And one of the questions that people would, women would ask me is,
How can you trust the God who did not tell you this? He didn't prepare your heart for this. And I think, you you and I have talked about it and I struggled with that emotionally because I wanted to be transparent. I wanted to be real and authentic. And I was struggling with that. And so it was on my third conference that I said, Lord, I keep getting this question and I do not know what to tell these women. I know that you're good. I know that you're faithful.
But there's a part of my heart that's struggling with this emotionally as well. You did not prepare me for this. And it was like he flashed back to a picture of me and my husband sitting in Randy and Jerry Reimer's church while they were dedicating baby Tristan. And he said, it was that moment that I told you that this is what I wanted you to do. And I was like, yeah, but, and he goes, you'd been there for years. You knew about adoption.
all of these other families had adopted and you didn't feel called then. That is when you felt called. And it was like an aha moment, like a light bulb got switched on in my heart. And it was, you did prepare me. I only saw what I chose to see, but he prepared my heart for it. And he prepared, he knew I was going to make it through and that, yeah, I was going to struggle, but I was going to make it through.
Lindy Wynne (15:18)
Yes, Shantel, I'm over here crying and it's so deeply moving and it's bringing me back to a memory because Shantel and I share in common this blessing of being mothers through the gift of adoption. one of my children, well, multiple of my children, but one of them in particular was going through a very, very difficult time and I was concerned about this child's life, like this child's very life. And I'm very blessed to have a little chapel that I...
have here that I made out of a shed. And I remember when I couldn't get to this child. so I didn't, I mean, mean, literally, not just like hypothetically speaking or spiritually speaking, but I literally couldn't get to this child. And I remember going into the chapel and laying this down to the Lord and basically saying to the Lord, how do I save this child? And the Lord saying,
you don't, I do. And then I had a memory come back in that prayer of when we were first called to adoption and we first adopted this child 21 years ago. And then I heard this is what I called you to. Like I called you to this moment and beyond, like God already knew and like.
Shantel Dudley (16:30)
Mm-hmm.
Yep. Right.
Lindy Wynne (16:44)
And I think one of the things, especially us being
coming together through American Mothers, this is really on my heart, there's been something super on my heart, Shantel that you encompass so beautifully, like gloriously. And you are one of the two women that I have interviewed where I am most kind of like astounded by what you do with your life and how you say yes to the Lord.
And this is it. And I might do an entire podcast on this. And somebody actually encouraged me to, when I was just having a heart to heart with a dear friend. And that is being both strong and soft, both strong and soft. Because we're called to both as mothers. Like that strength that you have, that is divine. Like that is from the Lord. It is all in God's grace that you are able to rock children into heaven. And I know Shantel,
from our conversations that you also have experienced great atrocities in your own formation as a child and development. And we're not gonna get into this today. At the same time, like I know that you have been a victim of abuse and I asked Shantel if I could mention that in this podcast and she gave me permission. And so I bring that up because even in spite of all the things you've experienced and these stories that you're sharing with us right now,
Shantel Dudley (17:57)
Yes.
Lindy Wynne (18:09)
You are still soft. And I asked you before we started, said, Shantel, what's that scripture about like, God will give us a new heart, God will give us a new spirit. And we looked it up and it's from Ezekiel. And there's a beautiful scripture in there about like how God will take our hearts of stone and give us hearts of flesh. And what I'm so incredibly touched by you, Shantel that is such a glorious example for all of us, is that you
could easily have such a hardened heart. And like, I love how you share about that time that you were basically bedridden, so overwhelmed with your feelings and with your experiences and the trauma of the experiences and the loss. And it was so difficult yet still you were holding children. when you were in that bedroom, which is just so precious, yet you have turned your heart over to the Lord time and time again and allowed God
Shantel Dudley (18:46)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Thank
Lindy Wynne (19:06)
to give you a new heart because we're so human and we're so fallen too that like we can say so stuck in grief, in resentment, in pain and suffering and we can have hardness of heart. Yet here you are crying and loving and being strong and like all the things yet like you said not allowing your emotions to rule you but really allowing the Lord to rule you.
Shantel Dudley (19:32)
Exactly. And I think that's a place, you know, there's some spiritual maturity with that. And how do we get spiritually mature? It is not in the green meadows and the flowers and the wonderful things, you know, we gain spiritual maturity often through the hard times, through the rough seasons of our life where we have to dig in and get gritty and
and let those roots just drive deeper and deeper down into him to help sustain us. And we learn without him, we are absolutely nothing. Like we cannot get through, you know, I had somebody one time tell me of the trial that they went through and that God was really testing them. And I said, well, what's going on? I went to the grocery store and somebody pulled in.
right in front of me in my parking spot. And I thought, sister, that was not a trial. That was not a test. Maybe it could have been considered a little bit of a test, but it's in the hard things in life where we really begin to question.
who we are without him. And I've known who I am without him. I grew up in the church, but I walked away from the Lord for a long time. And I know just how well I can wreck my own life. Like, I don't need a whole lot of help. I'm pretty dang good at it by myself. And but with him and through him, I can get through any storm because the Bible says the Bible does not say
If the storms come, the Bible says when the storms come. It doesn't say anything about if you should have a trial. It's when. And so we're going to go through those seasons in our life. And it's just a matter of, are we able to withstand and come out on the other side? Still usable by our Lord.
Lindy Wynne (21:47)
Yes, I love what you're saying. And I want to talk about this concept that you brought up of like the pretty green pastures and the storm. Because I said to Shantel, I said, I wish I could just move my computer and show you like the land right now because we were talking about the country. And the land that we live on and near is gloriously beautiful. It is storybook. It is so pretty. Yet the storms come.
Shantel Dudley (21:55)
Mm-hmm.
Lindy Wynne (22:15)
And I am fully aware for any of you who have ever been in a major catastrophe like I was in the San Francisco earthquake when I was a child, like the major one in the 80s with great devastation. And I have been in my basement in the middle of the night in the middle of tornado warnings. And I know in a second, it could all.
be gone. It could all just be taken away. And what you're getting to is, which is also in scripture, is that God's grace is sufficient. And that I talk about this a lot too. And also when I'm doing retreats or talks, it's like, let's just like say it how it is. And that is like, I am so limited. I am so limited. And I love how you said Shantel, that you have wrecked, like you know what a wreck you can make of your life, because we all can.
And I think you're getting to the heart of something that I haven't articulated on mamas and spirit. And sometimes I'm still sifting through and I feel like I have a moment of clarity, so I'm going to roll with it. Sometimes I feel frustrated because I see the spiritual formation, books or tendencies or whatnot. And I'm not trying to take away from some of these spiritual practices because they can be wonderful. But I think when it becomes about the practice and it's pretty.
instead of real life, which is gritty. Real life is gritty. And anybody who has adopted a child from foster care knows how gritty life can be. Anybody like Shantel and myself, who's made a wreck of their life, knows how nitty gritty it can be and even ugly, like super ugly without the Lord. Yet in that grit of life, that is, to me, Shantel, that is where my deepest formation
Shantel Dudley (23:36)
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Lindy Wynne (24:03)
has happened. That is where I have come to the end of myself and learned of my dependence on God. It's not when I'm doing these different spiritual formation books and meeting in like these pretty places and whatnot. I'm not saying those can't be helpful. And I'm not saying that we can't have beautiful sisterhood in them and a beautiful connection. we can't God encourages and he calls us to come together, but to come together to do whatever his works are that we're called to in each of our own lives. And so
Shantel Dudley (24:03)
Yes.
Right.
Lindy Wynne (24:33)
That's why I love like even when you started sharing your story, Shantel, you just like lay it out there. Like this is my life. This is what I've been through. This is where I'm at because that's what's real. And God is in what's real. Like one of my favorite stories from scripture is the woman at the well. And what does he say to her? He says, no, you have had five husbands and go back and all these things. And I believe she's able to receive that because she is in the presence of love itself, which none of us are.
Shantel Dudley (25:00)
Right. Right.
Lindy Wynne (25:02)
We're all very limited
Shantel Dudley (25:03)
Right.
Lindy Wynne (25:03)
and we are totally dependent on the fullness of truth and of love and of mercy.
Shantel Dudley (25:08)
Right, exactly. And don't you love in that story, his heart. Like that was his girl. That's his daughter. And yeah, he sees all this stuff, right? I mean, in my life, he saw all of the things that I was gonna have to go back and unpack. He was gonna have to sift through and deal with and work through. And he knew that that
hurt my heart, which hurt his heart. Like his compassion is so, so unbelievable. And I think as moms, oftentimes my prayer is Lord, show me them the way that you see them. And it's not just with my kids, but I want to see them through your eyes. I want to see them through grace. I want to see them through love, through mercy, through compassion.
and not my emotion of whatever that moment might be of frustration or irritation or I just don't care, you know, whatever. But what is it that is hurting their heart so that I can help touch that? And I know for me with my kids oftentimes, and many of my children did not have the ability to communicate well. ⁓ I mean, I had children that literally
have to blink their eyelids for them because they were not able to. I mean, I had some that were so neurologically complex that ⁓ breathing was extremely difficult for them. But I always said, Lord this is your baby. Show me how to love this child, where this child is at. And oftentimes, even with, you know, the oldest one we adopted was six, and it was taking them back.
almost to being just a little baby and being able to rock them and nurture them and finding that key that unlocks them so that they can grow and change and start to develop and learn. And a lot of times that's from nurturing. Well, what does the Lord do with us? He nurtures us through things. You know, He cares and He's so kind and compassionate in getting us through things. He doesn't get frustrated because we're not there yet. You know, for me, that was huge.
Lindy Wynne (27:33)
Yes, yes, I love that so much. And that is at the heart of the matter of being able to hopefully by the grace of God to be able to see our children as God does, rather than as we do. Because what I have seen in my life, and please correct me if I'm wrong, Shantel, is that our lenses often are to lean too much towards truth without mercy or mercy without truth. Like there's this very sacred balance.
but then at the heart and the soul of it, the heart of the Lord is just the sacredness of life and the belovedness of this human being, which is beyond our comprehension, just like God's love for each one of us. no, you.
Shantel Dudley (28:13)
Right. Yeah. You know, yeah, go ahead.
I was going to say, I love how you just brought the sacredness of life. So I have gone and have spoken a lot at crisis pregnancy centers. As believers, it's easy for us to be against something, right? We're supposed to believe in life. We're supposed to believe in
you know, in protection of life and all of those things. Oftentimes we are the ones, you know, the believers are the ones that help bring a solution and a healing to a mom who was faced with the decision. And adoption helps that, you know. And so we can't just be against something, we need to be for something and we need to be part of the solution.
And so that's one thing that I will often share a lot with communities and organizations like that, the pregnancy centers and stuff is we need to have a loud call to believers of maybe not everybody can adopt, maybe not every, cause it does take a partnership. If you're married, you need both partners on board because adoption is hard. is emotionally.
It's all of the things. It's very difficult process to go through and then walk through our children through certain stages of their life. ⁓ It takes a team oftentimes if you're married. So if you can't adopt support, be that helper, that ⁓ person who is going to support a family who is adopting, like a meal or giving the parents a date out or whatever.
⁓ be part of the solution to the issue as well.
Lindy Wynne (30:12)
Yes, Shantel, that is so inspiring. I feel so inspired by that. What am I for?
What are we for? What are we here together and what are we for? And we are for the sacredness of life and the blessing and the gift of every life, including
Shantel Dudley (30:18)
Mm-hmm.
Lindy Wynne (30:27)
our own, everybody here gathered. For you, Shantel, I'd love to know So often, I have felt afraid, as I imagine we all have felt afraid. And I love how in scripture, and I've talked about this before too, it says that Mary was disturbed when the angel came during the Annunciation because she was human with the only perfect human heart. And so the feelings of fear are normal.
Shantel Dudley (30:28)
Right? Right.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Lindy Wynne (30:52)
So the fear of giving one's life away to the Lord of like truly abandoning, surrendering ourselves to the Lord can be so scary, especially when we know pain and suffering and we've been there or we've done it. That's what really amazes me about you too, Shantel, is that you've said all these yeses time and time again.
And so in my experience thus far, when I have chosen by the grace of God to, for example, like adopt our children, especially our older children from foster care, I have experienced love itself through that. Like people will always say, they're so lucky they have you. But it's like, all of the experiences that I had in my life that weren't of love itself, like
Shantel Dudley (31:33)
Yes.
Lindy Wynne (31:36)
and experiences I had of negativity or rejection or abandonment or all the things. Like God's divine and healing touch, I experienced that through that, yes. It's not one-sided. It's like this, it's God's human family plan. It's like God's glorious plan versus my own.
Shantel Dudley (31:47)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right.
Exactly. You know, I'm going to share just a little story with you. And we had not talked about this, but I'm going to share a little story with you with adopting Raniya. And she was, my husband says all the time, she was the most beautiful baby he had ever seen. She wasn't a baby. We got her when she was two, but all my kids are babies. Even my, the ones that my 40, their 40s, I still call them my babies. So anyway, ⁓ had adopted her. She had been left in a, ⁓
in a tub and her with her she was 10 months old and her 6 year old brother was in charge because mom was off doing her thing and she slipped under the water of course and and it they worked on her for a few hours and they brought her back the paramedics did and Every breath she took her body would contort every single breath it was
that difficult for her. Life was that hard for her. And yet she was the sweetest baby. You have the softest eyes you've ever seen. And I knew I was called to just rock her and to love her. And so I did. And it was her last day with us. We knew that she was pretty close. And she was with us for two years. ⁓
And I leaned down and I was rocking her and holding her and I said, baby, mom is not going to be too hurt to not do this again. I said, there is something about you that kind of helped heal this mama's heart. I was just conversing with my daughter at her funeral. My oldest daughter through marriage.
We've been close, but at that time we weren't super, super close, but she was sitting right next to me. She had her arm around me and part of my healing with each one of my children that have passed away is I've made a video for them and I played the video at their funeral. so Renaya was the first one. It was just part of healing for me. And so the video was up on the screen at the front of the church and we're all sitting there crying. And my daughter, Christina leaned over to me and she says, mom, she said,
I think because of Renaya, I was able to see your heart more and I actually truly have fallen in love with you. And she says, I see your heart. And it was at that moment that she said that. And I was looking up at Renaya on the screen and I said, I never knew how broken my heart was at the loss of my first child when I was a teenager. ⁓
And that's a story for another time or it can be. ⁓ But instantly there were walls that went up around my heart and I knew it. I mean, you talked about my heart before I became very hard hearted to protect myself. I just built the walls up, cinder blocks real quick. And man, just, I muddied that wall up so nothing could get through. And I was still a good person, but I was missing out on a lot.
I didn't allow my heart to go tender because I didn't want to hurt anymore. And I did that as a way to protect myself. The problem is with that is it kept me locked behind that wall. And so other people could not get a sense for how much I loved them. There was a block there. And Raniya helped heal a part of my heart that I did not know had been completely shattered. And in my yes to her,
the Lord helped me deal with the pain of losing my first child. And it was absolutely a beautiful thing. because of that, I I love every one of my children and I honor every one of my children, the yes to each one of them. But the reason I was able to continue saying yes and be the mother that I am, and it's the one half that I wear that I am the most proud of for the way that I love my children.
is because of the healing that took place so many years later that I did not even know needed to still be healed. But it was in that moment with that yes with her and walking her through that process and realizing God is good and I can trust him. And my pain from my childhood was not missed by him in any sense. He was waiting to heal my broken heart. And I think he tried for years.
But it was in that moment with Rania that the healing took place.
Lindy Wynne (36:53)
Shantel, that story is so deeply moving and really elicits the point better than anything else could. And what I cannot help but think is you use the word spiritual maturity, which are not two words that I'm super used to being put together and I just love. I really love that you said that. And what I'm honestly thinking is this is one of the most spiritually mature humans I've ever been with. there, and I believe that that is a gift from your yes to.
being a mother to all of these children in circumstances where one of them might seem like too much. Like how do I get through one of these, let alone to continually say yes and to continually journey through pilgrimage, a pilgrimage of the heart through each one of them. And I believe that this is a beautiful invitation to me and to all of us to really ask ourselves like Lord,
Shantel Dudley (37:31)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (37:53)
What hard things are you asking me to do out of my love for you and my love for humanity? Because it touches me that with this precious little girl that she could not speak in what you said is she had the softest eyes that really struck my heart because it was in the intimacy really like we are embodied souls and it was in the intimacy of your bodies. It was not in word.
It was in the cuddling, it was in the holding, it was in that connection that we most long for and desire, that intimacy that we most long for and desire. It was in those sacred moments that your own heart was chiseled away at and healed to give you a new heart, to give you a heart of flesh because all of our hearts have been or are stony in some way.
Shantel Dudley (38:26)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Lindy Wynne (38:47)
And I know there's times in my own life, I've talked about this before, the second time in my marriage that Brian was very, very sick. Within like the first few years, I was like, Lord, like, who do you think I am? Like, how do you think I could do this, Lord? But I couldn't do it, right? Like, that's at the heart of the matter is I couldn't do it. But yet I didn't understand that like life could be that difficult, that life could be that hard and that threatening and that vulnerable.
Shantel Dudley (38:58)
Hahaha
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Lindy Wynne (39:17)
And yet it can be and it is. And we see that right now in this snippet of history. And I love how you're in reality because you talked earlier, kind of going full circle in this mini retreat. You talked earlier about how in scripture it talks about when the storms will come. Not if the storms will come, but when the storms will come. And one of the very simple common sense epiphanies, because I'm kind of dense as probably we all are,
that I came to at one point in my life was like, wait a minute, in scripture, it never says that our lives will be devoid of suffering. The promised of Christ is Emmanuel, God with us in the suffering. And if we read all the stories, whether the Old Testament or the New Testament, there's all these horrendous stories, like they're horrendous. And then when we see them played out in the world sometimes, and I used to say this a lot, like,
Shantel Dudley (39:58)
Right?
Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (40:11)
I can't believe she did X or I can't believe he did X or I can't believe this happened, whether it's a natural catastrophe or it's something that a human chose to do. Yet this has always happened in human history since the fall. Like this has always happened. Great atrocities have always happened. And so the acceptance of that and the choice still to love.
Shantel Dudley (40:25)
Right.
Lindy Wynne (40:38)
the choice still to ask by the grace of God for a heart of flesh to love. That is our faith and yet it is so difficult to do, but yet you are a glorious example of that Shantel.
Shantel Dudley (40:52)
Well, thank you. You know, I went Sunday school, right? So we know about Job. We know about Noah. I mean, all of the Sunday school stories, we've heard about them. We might have even, our pastor or our priest may have at some point touched on different things. We don't know what we don't know until we know it, right? I mean, pretty simple, but there's truth to that. so...
Our son Christian that we have right now that we adopted him. ⁓ his grandparents are good friends of ours and it was a little bit of a decision to adopt him because we know the family so well and they're a local family and a lot of our children were from out of state and that was by divine design because running into local families with their child. mean, it's, it's, you know, something I wasn't
prepared for or really wanted to do, but we finally said yes to Christian. And, ⁓ on Labor Day morning, he has three bio siblings on Labor Day morning. His oldest bio brother was killed in a car accident, 18 years old, will start a senior year of high school the next day. And we were called to do the funeral, which was on Sunday.
in little tiny town in northern Minnesota, one stoplight in this town and the school was just packed of people and they're all questioning and they're wondering what's going on? How, how, how did this happen? mean, there, it's all the things and his grandmother, Linda walked up to me and said, and she's been at every one of our children's funerals to support Christian siblings, whatever, you know. ⁓
And she walked up to me with tears in her eyes and she said, Shantel, I've never known this kind of pain before. She says, I have never hurt so bad in my life. And she said, and you've had to walk this six times. She said, I never wanted to know what this was like. And she said, but now I do. And she said, I am so very sorry for the extreme losses that you have had to face. So we don't know what we don't know until we know.
And I believe we have no idea, you know, turning this to our relationship with the Lord, because that's what this is about. We have no idea the extreme amount of compassion and grace and mercy that he can pour out on a person until it's time. Like, my grace is sufficient for you. He doesn't give us grace to go through something before we go through it.
It's at that moment in our need, in our desperate hour, that he pours out his grace in that moment on us to get through what we need to go through. And let's face it, not everybody is going to experience this. The natural order is our grandparents, our parents, maybe some siblings. The unnatural order is burying our children before.
you know, having grandma and grandpa sit at the funeral and other siblings sit at the funeral. That's against the natural order of things. But it's happened so much in history. It happened in the Bible, right? And I love the shortest scripture I believe in the Bible. It's two words. Jesus wept.
He experienced grief and he experienced loss of a dear, dear, dear friend to him who he adored, he loved. And it says, Jesus wept. And so I often said, if grief and loss and heartache and tears are good enough for him, then it's okay for me to walk through this process of grief because it was often shoved down our throats.
They're in heaven. They're happy. At least they're in a better place. Why are you sad? Be happy. Yeah, they're in a better place, but I'm not. My arms hurt, you know? And then as an adoptive mother, I would hear things like, at least it wasn't one of your real kids. I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was holding a fake child, you know? And so my thing was always because I'm...
I'm soft and I'm tender and I'm kind and I'm sweet and all those wonderful things. no, there's still a mama in me. And so my thing was, come here, let me lay hands on you and I'll pray about forgiveness later. You know, I mean, it was like, here, we're going to have a little ministry time, lay hands on you for saying something so stupid. And it came to me the other day, I was talking to my husband. This is hitting home to somebody and they're not going to say this to somebody else anymore. At least it wasn't one of your real kids. ⁓ So you're welcome.
But my husband and I were talking the other day and I said, you know, I think I need to have a t-shirt made up that says, I have grace for your stupidity. And it's hilarious and it's funny. And you know me a little bit, Lindy, so you knew I was probably gonna go off and say something. But you know, people don't know what they... Hopefully, leave her alone. This is all on me. Don't send her a bunch of messages about...
But you know, people don't know what they don't know until they know it, right? And so it is okay for people to not understand fully that heart of just that pressing. I think I listened to one of your other podcasts and you talked about the crushing. And I thought how many times in my, I'm 53 years old,
How many times in my life have I had that, the crushing? Like, God had to do that to get to the person that was behind, hidden behind all of that pain and all of the rejection and all of the hurt. It's like, had to, there were times in my life I needed that crushing. I was ready for it.
to be who I am today so that I could step into more yeses that are to come.
Lindy Wynne (47:39)
Amen Shantel more yeses to come and that is at the heart of this is for all of us to hopefully and prayerfully go to the Lord in intimate prayer and Offer our hearts so that he can give us a heart a flesh each a heart of flesh each one of us is needed
so that hopefully and prayerfully we say yes to our next call to love. Shantel thank you so much. I have loved my time with you. You are really a gift beyond measure.
Shantel Dudley (48:12)
Well, thank you and I have enjoyed this. I can't wait to pick up the phone and call you and to talk to you down the road. It was like, just feel like our hearts were just connected. so thank you, American mothers for this. This started a beautiful friendship and I can't wait to spend time with you.
Lindy Wynne (48:21)
Yeah.
You too, Shantel. And I have to say, it's so funny because when I was first nominated, I didn't know who nominated me or I didn't know, I just didn't know. I imagine a lot of people can understand this. I wasn't looking for something to be like, ⁓ here, this is Tennessee mother of the year or whatnot. And then,
I'm just gonna say, I'll make sure she says it's okay. But Rainer said to me like, this is a way Lindy for you to share God's love. this is a this is this is another way that you can say yes, hopefully and prayerfully to share the love of God. And then in meeting all of you ladies in conversations and dialogue like this, Shantel that it's like, wow, God, like this is where God calls us to do new things and new things for him. And to be with
Shantel Dudley (49:26)
Mm-hmm.
Lindy Wynne (49:29)
new sisters in Christ and in all the ways that he calls us with all the humans that he calls us that the Lord calls us to know his love more fully because you have to tell there are very few times in my life where I feel like my gosh we are just like like it's utter bond it's that like utter connection in in the Lord and I'm super blessed with that through mamas in spirit and I am so blessed with that today like I just
Shantel Dudley (49:50)
⁓ Yeah.
Lindy Wynne (49:56)
I thank the Lord so tremendously for this time together. And so to praise the Lord and to thank God because God is all goodness and the source of everything that we need in our lives. Can you please close us in prayer?
Shantel Dudley (50:08)
Yes ma'am, I sure can. Thank you. dear heavenly father. Thank you so much for this sweet time together Lord, I just pray for lindy. I pray for mamas and spirits I believe that you are going to continue to grow this and lord. I just pray that lindy would Be open to future. Yeses lord. I pray for the listeners the other mamas the other women out there. They're listening I pray that
that as they were listening to this Lord, that you were working in their heart and showing them whatever it is that you needed to show them. That's your business and their business. So Lord, I just thank you for always being good, for always being faithful and showing up. And we give you all of the thanks and all of the praise. In Jesus' name, amen.
Lindy Wynne (50:56)
Amen. Thank you so much Shantel.
Shantel Dudley (50:59)
You are welcome, beautiful lady.
Lindy Wynne (51:01)
And thank you so much to everybody for being here, for gathering. is so fortifying and generous of the Lord to bring us together, to strengthen us, to both help us to remember that we are both strong in the Lord and we are both soft with these soft and fleshy hearts by his grace to do his holy will to love. Can't wait to be together again next time. This is Lindy Wynne with Mamas in Spirit. May God bless you and yours always.