God Illuminates the Conscience with Joelle Maryn of "Become the Fire"

“My whole life burned down to the ground.”

When she was six, Joelle Maryn narrowly escaped a house fire. That day, she lost her beloved sister.

Adding to her sorrow, Joelle also felt as though she had lost her parents to the heartbreak of losing their child. 

Joelle became an actress and model, attempting to rebuild her life with worldly pursuits. What appeared to be a peak of success—her image displayed on a billboard in Times Square—highlighted her achievements. 

Yet, as Joelle became more recognizable to the public, she felt increasingly lost and less recognizable to herself.

In this 'Women of Wisdom' series, hear how Joelle experienced an Illumination of Conscience that led to her conversion. Listen to Joelle share how she grew to “Become the Fire,” the title of her book.

Discover how you can shine brightly with God's love, too!

Learn more about Joelle Maryn, an award-winning actress, international TV host, and author at joellemaryn.com.

Transcript:

Lindy Wynne (00:01.335)

Welcome to Mamas in Spirit, a podcast pointing you towards God in everything you are and everything you do. I'm Lindy Wynne and it's a blessing to be with you. Hello everyone and welcome to this mini retreat in a podcast. I feel like we are just here with heaven and earth. I know I've told many of you many times during these mini retreats in a podcast that I have a precious picture of my sister in heaven, Carolyn Henry Druffel And sometimes I look in her eyes right before we start and I'm just

reminded of that beautiful heavenly communion with the saints, with the angels, of course, God, our Blessed Mother and just how we come here together, our hearts gathered in the sacred heart of Jesus as sisters and brothers, for all of you joining us in Christ to hopefully abide so deeply with one another and with God. And so today for this mini retreat, we are so blessed to be here with Joelle Maryn Joelle, thank you for joining us.

Joelle Maryn (01:00.308)

thank you so much for having me. What a blessing.

Lindy Wynne (01:03.022)

Well, and I'm so excited for you to pour out your wisdom, Joelle, for this Women of Wisdom series, because I know that you have been through many trials and that your beautiful heart has been open to the transformation and redemption of God. And in that, I know that we will be so blessed to hear what you have to share. So in that spirit, in the Holy Spirit, I would love for you to open us in prayer.

Joelle Maryn (01:27.608)

Sure, absolutely. In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Lord Jesus, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you for the gift of your Holy Spirit. Lord, you know that life in this world is not easy, but this is not our final destination. You know everyone listening to this, all the struggles in their hearts, all the wounds, all the questions, all the doubts, all the fears, all the things that are in the way of them being who you've called them to be. And I ask you, Lord,

to help heal all of these things, help us to push past fear, help us to hear your voice loud and clear, make a way where there is no way, Lord. Light up our path, especially by your word. Help us to know the scriptures, that go against the lies the enemy keeps telling us. Help us to do what you say and to only worry what you think about us. Help us most importantly to love and to treat others how we wanna be treated.

We thank you and we praise you. ask you to anoint this podcast, anoint me and the host and guide our thoughts, our words, our hearts, our hands, the questions and the answers in Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

Lindy Wynne (02:36.48)

Amen. In the of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Amen. Joelle, thank you for that beautiful prayer. And I know that your book has become the fire and I just sense the fire of the Holy Spirit and kindled in you through that beautiful, beautiful prayer. And I would just love for you to start at the beginning of your story.

Joelle Maryn (02:54.68)

Yeah, well, Become the Fire starts out, you know, I'll just say there's a happy ending, thank God, because it is pretty dramatic. You know, when I was six years old, I had a tragic house fire that I barely escaped, and my 11-year-old sister Maria, unfortunately, didn't make it out. And that day, like, my whole life was burned down to the ground, and, you know, I lost my only sibling. I lost everything I had materially, which is really nothing, you know.

what's important is life, but my parents, lost to the grief and the heartache of losing their daughter, which is understandable. But as a child, I didn't get it. And so I felt left behind. I felt like God didn't love me.

I asked him to raise her from the dead. He didn't. So I was like, what? Like, I know you can do this. Why aren't you doing this? I didn't understand that question that we all have. Why do bad things happen to good people? Why did God allow this? Of course he raised her, and we have the hope of heaven, but I was too little to understand. And so I still believe, but really not with that childlike faith that I had started out with. And I kind of, through the years, fell away from the faith, got caught up in the things of the world.

And everything, everyone's, oh, if you do this, you're gonna be happy. Oh, if you do this, you'll be happy. So I kept trying to fill a void with stuff. And as an actress, I've been on stage since I was five years old. I started misusing the gift and hiding behind characters. I especially wanted to take on the life of a character who is perfect, who had it all together. Because my life was such a mess and it wasn't healthy. It wasn't the right use of the gift. you know.

I was a model and on billboards and Times Square and all this stuff that it was like, if you check this box, you're supposed to like feel like you've made it. And I just felt more empty because I didn't have God in my life.

Joelle Maryn (04:44.756)

So it kind of crescendoed in this mountaintop moment where I went to LA for a photo shoot and you know here I am on top of the building Hollywood sign behind me you know this kind of like rooftop moment, mountaintop moment, you've made it and I look in the compact mirror during the photo shoot and I don't recognize myself because it looked glamorous on the outside but my interior was just tormented because at that point I was so broken.

into pieces that it was like, where do you even start to put that back together? You know, and a lot of us maybe didn't have a house fire. Some people have, but we all have had loss. Like I didn't even know you lost your sister. So when I heard that, I was like, right away, I know what that feels like, you know, but we've all had moments where we've had to start all over again, like where our life was burned down, broken dreams, broken relationships, you know, just things that just blew our mind. Like why did this happen? Or it could be death or grief or

You know, and so become the fire is about not letting the fires in life consume us because we don't have control over them, but becoming the fire that makes a change and letting that inner light go off that kind of like St. Joan of Arc. She's in the fire and she tells a priest like, hold the cross higher so I could see it through the flames. And like, how do we get to that point where that fire inside is so bright? So I was so lost, but that night, you know, in Hollywood, I finally realized I was lost and

Lindy Wynne (06:01.815)

Mm.

Joelle Maryn (06:11.95)

cried out to God for the first time in years of true prayer, not like, God, I want this. want, you know, like, but a true Lord, I need you surrender. I don't have this. I have no idea who I am, why I'm here, you know, why I'm doing this.

Like I'm not happy. And after that, my grandparents have been praying four rosaries, my grandmother, four rosaries a day, Divine Mercy Chaplet every day for 12 years. I was away from the church. And I believe if you're praying for someone to don't give up because the second their heart is open, the second their heart is like, Lord, I need you.

that grace rushes in. It's the prayers that we pray for people are never lost. They don't disappear. They're just kind of like outside the door of someone's heart. And maybe we need to start praying for their hearts to soften and open for the grace to come in. But certainly like that day I knew something was off. I opened my heart and I returned back. was living in Austin at the time.

I was wide awake walking in my bathroom on the way to my closet of all places. And I had, it's kind of like a near death experience, but I wasn't on an operating table. And I had no idea. Like it really freaked me out. In, you know, Catholic circles, it's known as the illumination of conscience, which is something that is in the catechism in the Bible where we have to account for everything we did or didn't do in life. And we kind of see an illumination of our soul and the state of our soul.

It was, it really freaked me out. I didn't know what it was. took years to try to figure that out. But, you know, basically I was shown that I was in sin. I didn't even realize it. I saw the depths of it. I saw that I was given a gift of leadership and that people were following my example, especially like on how I was dressing immodestly. And then someone followed that person who followed that person.

Joelle Maryn (08:05.112)

who followed that person. And it was horrifying. mean, my stories went at mercy. That's why I say there's a happy ending. And there's still a happy ending coming. There's more happy endings, right? But this illumination shook me up. And then that was, there was kind of like, that was my left column was my bad stuff. And to my right was a column of like what was supposed to be good. And I was shown that column was nearly empty.

And it was just like a line shown to me. I wasn't even shown anything. And it more like a line, like it was, the bar was really low. Like you didn't love, you missed the mark. And really, I feel like I merited hell, but again, God doesn't show us our sins and illuminate the stuff to throw us in hell. No, he gives it so we have a chance to repent. It's an act of mercy and turn our lives around. Then I was shown this right column lifted up. And if there was something in it, it would have crushed my worst.

sin and I didn't know love covers a multitude of sins. didn't know St. John of the Cross and the evening of life were judged on love alone. But I mean I saw this like in full light and I don't know how you explain something like this. All of us will get it shown differently. You know I was shown columns maybe someone else I've heard someone else was shown in completely different ways. You know I keep hearing more and more stories.

It's not like I was special and that you should ask for this, know because it comes with responsibility But I would say that the message is that we're all going to receive this and I think everyone even listening to is in that better place than where I was but just to really strive to love so no matter how this is shown to you at your death or the second coming of Jesus that's when we all get it if we're alive during the second coming of Jesus The main overarching thing no matter how it's shown to you is that we're called to love

and that we're judged on love. And we can go to church every day. We can say all these prayers. But then if we're mean to our neighbor, and we're mean to each other, or we're operating in jealousy and not trying to lift people up, then we've missed the mark. And it's like, God is so simple. It's really all about love. And the only way we can love is actually by opening our heart to receive the Lord through the sacraments, through prayer, through...

Joelle Maryn (10:19.04)

Scripture, his word, his word is so powerful to keep us going to help us become the fight.

Lindy Wynne (10:27.274)

Yes, Joelle, your heart is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing all of that. And it reminds me of a quote of thank you for seeing me as I am. And that is one of our saints. And y'all, I really need to look this up because I do not remember which saint said that.

Joelle Maryn (10:44.169)

Thank

Lindy Wynne (10:45.568)

But it's such a profound experience at this moment in my own life, in my own journey, in my own pilgrimage even. And I see that in you, Joelle, so beautifully. When you talk about that moment of illumination, thank you, Lord, thank you, Christ, for helping me to see myself as I am and the humility that pours from you, Joelle, which is just, it's so deeply moving to hear. And I'd like to go back to the beginning of your story.

and that initial fire and that profound loss of your sister. But like you said, not just your sister, you lost your parents in a sense to their grief. And you were a vulnerable, vulnerable child with also great need. And yet in Christ's mercy, in the mercy of your heart that you've been blessed with through Christ, you can see that in your parents. Like you can see the like lack of fault in a sense because that grief is so consuming. It's really an unimaginable grief.

Joelle Maryn (11:43.49)

Yeah, and that's something I talk about in the book. So my father, he tried to save my sister in the house fire and his arms were getting all burnt up. He couldn't get through to her door. So he spent his whole life blaming himself for her death, although it wasn't his fault. And he would cry up to about a week.

before his death. think it was maybe some kind of PTSD. He would be screaming at night. My mom would hear him say, it's not my fault. It's not my fault. You see, and this is where the enemy let the flames, you know, consume him and fed him with lies. It's all your fault. You know, he became an alcoholic after he never got help. He really, he lost himself. And on his death bed, I completely forgive him. I mean, it's a grace on his, because I see

Not that it's okay that he got consumed by flames. That's why that's my fire. I'm trying to help people like, no, this isn't just like, this happened. You can go be a horrible person or sin. That's not a free ticket, you know? Because when he was on his deathbed, and thank God I had the priest come anoint him and everything, it was the saddest experience I've ever, you know?

Well, not I my sister does the saddest, maybe the second saddest was that he never got to be who he was created to be. And this was a child of God who God had plans for. Like it was a grace. I completely forgave him. And it was more like I was moved.

Like nobody should ever get consumed by these horrors in our life. We can't get rid of how crazy the world is, but we are called to be a light and we're called to keep our faith in the darkest moments. And when I saw that the enemy won this battle against my dad, I will fight for my daddy the rest of my life. You know, I'm not going to let the flames of what my dad wasn't for me, because that's been painful.

Joelle Maryn (13:32.802)

Consume, know, instead I opened the Bible. I studied the attributes of God the Father. I started to see him work in my life. I started to see what divine providence can do. I started to see what the power of the Holy Spirit can do when you walk in the authority that you're a child of God. And then I realized that the enemy wants all the fires, all the people that have hurt us, all this stuff to consume us so that we never become the fire that makes a change. And I'm like, I am not.

I'm not let that happen, not in my life, and I'm gonna fight for everybody listening to this, because you start to uncover the lies. When you start to go to church, and you start to read the Bible, I read the whole Bible front to back in two months. I was like, I need to know the truth. And when I found out the truth, that God lives in me, and that we have this beautiful sacrament of reconciliation, and we can begin again, and his strength can start to work for us.

Lindy Wynne (14:09.715)

.

Joelle Maryn (14:23.668)

we can start to use the gifts that he gave us for good and everybody has their own gifts. A lot of times the battles with the enemy doesn't want you to know what you have. He wants you to want what somebody else has, but you don't need what someone else has. You have your own thing. And so become the fire helps people also walk through like what are your gifts? What are your graces? You know, where do you come alive? Where do you light up? Where is the attack? Where's the fire that you need the Lord to walk through with you so that it gets purified?

and that light inside becomes brighter than your worst trauma. We're not discounting traumas, we're not discounting trials, we're not discounting attacks, all this stuff is so real. But if we just stay stuck in it and we don't start to let the Lord heal these memories and heal these wounds, we're just gonna keep hurting each other and that is what the enemy wants and I will fight against it the rest of my life.

Lindy Wynne (15:14.565)

Yes, Joelle, I sense that very holy fire in you and that is so moving. And a quote just came back to me from one of my mentor teachers when I was in a pastoral care and counseling program many, many, years ago, but I always remembered it. And at the time I was in a very difficult situation. My husband was fighting for his life. I was in my mid-twenties. It was a very difficult time. And he said to me, Lindy, have to get through the darkness to get, you have to go through the darkness to get to the light.

Joelle Maryn (15:44.398)

you

Lindy Wynne (15:44.525)

And I hear that in you, Joelle, which I love because it's not about staying stagnated in our traumas or in our difficulties, in our sufferings or in our sorrows, but yet bringing all of ourselves, bringing all of it to the Lord so that God's holy light, the light that will always shine in the darkness can shine through and draw us out by God's grace. And that's what I'm hearing and seeing in you.

Joelle Maryn (16:09.806)

Yeah, and you know, our life here is very short. It goes by quick. You know, it was like yesterday, I thought I was 16. You know, like, I remember getting my license and just starting to drive and it goes by so fast. And that's why it's like, this is not our final destination, you know, but while we're here, we better live it up. We better do our best to use what God gave us to make the world a better place, you know, and to be remembered by acts of love. Because when my grandmother, she passed away during COVID, it's like,

All those little acts of love she did for me, she was, you she basically took care of me when my parents couldn't. Like her bowl of pasta lives on in my heart, in my imagination, you know, in my stomach for the rest of my life that I will never forget. Would she sacrifice to take care of me?

Lindy Wynne (16:58.706)

Yes, amen. And I love that you talk about your grandmother because in our human expectation, which makes sense, we often expect our families to look like the Holy Family, but that does not happen often. Like there are many, many times that children do not receive either their basic needs or their love needs, their spiritual needs, whatnot. And we are human and there is no such thing as a perfect parent other than

really the Holy Family and other than the perfect heart of our Blessed Mother in the sense of humanity. She is the only person that was fully, is fully human that has an Immaculate Heart. And so yet in our expectations we can stay so stagnated and I didn't get that from a parent or I didn't get that from my parents yet God is so profound and so eternal, so endless that God will provide.

in all circumstances and in your circumstance, I'm hearing that you received that beautiful outpouring from your grandmother and that caring and the symbolism of that care in that bowl of pasta, which is so deeply moving and I'm imagining everyone can relate to in some way. And Joelle, you're getting really down to the deepest levels of the soul and really the fight by God for the soul and our free will.

Joelle Maryn (18:07.63)

you

Lindy Wynne (18:23.449)

in our free will, we get to choose, we get to say yes or no, and may our yes mean yes for the Lord and to the holy light. And Joelle, I always find in these many retreats in the podcast, God is so generous to me that there have been so many times in the last almost seven years that I can look back on these stories of conversion and how God is speaking.

Personally and intimately and deeply to me just like he is for all of us gathered That's what God does and you you prayed in the beginning that we hear God's voice so loudly so succinctly So I think that it is God's providence that last night I was sharing with a trusted soul to trusted souls really about one of my concerns for one of the people that I love most in life and how I feel so concerned about this person

And yet what I can do is pray, is pray for this person because I sense this battle in this soul of this human that I love so dearly. And Joelle, you talk about your dad and the struggle of the soul of your dad, which is just heart wrenching, just thinking about him and then also thinking about your daughter heart. And then you also talked about your own. And so I'd love for you in this, also in this Women of Wisdom series, this is very deep, but

Really Joelle, I mean you can hang. You can hang with the deep. And so I have two questions for you that are very, very deep. Okay, the first is you talked about living it up. And I love that you use those words because those words could be used secularly. And you talked about being on the rooftop modeling. I think of all that comes with not just that culture, but with the modeling and of, you know, entertainment and all the things, but of our secular culture.

Joelle Maryn (19:51.979)

Bye.

Lindy Wynne (20:15.842)

of living it up, of the party world. It's very, very sexualized, very materialized, very much corp- corp-poreal, like of the body, but not of the soul. And so I think of living it up in that sense and the fight for your soul in that circumstance. So I want to start there, but then I want to move to your dad and the, not just your dad, but the sense of the other. Like we all here gathered can probably bring

to mind and heart at least one person, if not a multitude of people, including our own souls, but people outside of ourselves that we do not have control over. We only have control over our own selves and our own free will. We cannot take away the free will of another that is God ordained and God gifted. That is from the Lord and we each get to choose for ourselves. But that does not mean that there is not great suffering for us when we love someone else who is struggling and

grasping at the soul level, like that deep, deep fight between really good and evil, between light and darkness. And so Joelle, I'd first like you to speak to yourself and that own fight that you felt for your own soul by God and how you, I heard many, you've started to answer this in the sense of like scripture and saints and sacraments and prayer.

I'd love for you to speak very deeply to your own experience and how you continue to say yes to the Lord and to choose the Lord.

Joelle Maryn (21:49.036)

Yeah, well first of all, just want to say that a lot of times when I speak somewhere, I speak all over the country and have spoken in other countries, that I'm preaching to myself that the words that the Lord gives me are the same ones I need to hear. And so I think he gives us all of our life experiences, even

Allows the wounds. I don't believe god ever causes evil I think he allows it out of his love and because we like you said we can't control other people or things that happen but he always brings about a greater good and one of those greater goods is Sharing with each other so that we don't feel alone that we feel in community and to know like someone else has suffered too because the enemy likes to isolate and make us think we're the only ones going through something so to know like

God sees you and hears you in those moments is so important. So I get edified by just reiterating what I know the Lord showed me that I need to hear over and over again. And I feel like we need to be reminded over and over again how much God loves us and that he still has plans for us. And there's still a future. And what happened yesterday is in the past and there's still today.

There's still what's ahead that God can see all of it. Even if we, might show us a glimpse. We don't know every step. I think a lot of people would run away if we do every step to cross the finish line, but we need to stick with it. As far as living it up and the culture, I think we need to be, you know, kind of cataclysm, catalysts to make the change in the world by connecting what's in the culture and what's in our faith, you know, and finding ways to bring the Lord.

to the culture. We can't change the culture, you know, that I guess the second part of that was like, it reminds me of the serenity prayer, you know, that we just need to pray for what we can't change, you know, like to surrender that, but to do the part that we can. And that's the living it up part. That's like, you know, finding ways to connect with people, finding how to put good, even in worldly, you know, situations and experiences and to not forget that God is with us.

Joelle Maryn (24:00.43)

in that. So I think it's very important. I never thought the Lord would send me back into film and television or any of that because I experienced so much evil in that side of things. And when I turned my life back to God, I was like, I actually had renounced going on camera again. And now I'm a TV host and an actress and I'm the Blessed Mother in an upcoming film. you know, but I had to break the vows that I made, you know, that I said I would never go on camera again to see that God can use.

Good with it. whatever not everyone's going to be a media, right? But like whatever your thing is, we can't be afraid to live in the world, but not be of the world. You know, and we have to be so careful also of judging people just by the outside.

Lindy Wynne (24:36.992)

Yes.

Joelle Maryn (24:43.116)

because we can also get stuck in like a false religion where we're just like, that person looks so religious, so they must be. And then we get really disappointed when they're not, you know? And so I think we really need to just judge trees by fruit, pray for what we see where fruit needs to be improved, but to not, like John the Baptist probably wasn't.

what you think, you know what I'm saying? He wore a hair shirt and he was a little bit edgy, you know? So we can have some edgy saints. We can have some edgy people and still have a deep prayer life. And I think we need to be accepting of one another in that way, always trying to see people and humanity through the eyes of God, you know? Even people that are away from the faith, the only way we're gonna convert them is to be Jesus to them.

to love them where they're at. Like Mother Teresa is one of the greatest healers, I think, of our time, because she didn't ask people, like, what religion are you? You know, like, how much money do you make? Like, she didn't judge people by anything material or worldly. She was like, that's a child of God. see Jesus in them. And that is what's going to take our faith to next levels, is to start to see that, but to also see the Lord in ourselves. And so part of my journey

was to realize that my past is my past and I'm a new creation in Christ and everyone listening to this, you are a new creation in Christ and to start looking in the mirror and seeing him within yourself, because how can you see him in other people if you don't have a good view of yourself? And it's a different kind of confidence. It's a God confidence. It's a, you know, I'm the daughter of the King and I could do all things through Christ who strengthens me and I can get through this trial.

with the Lord on my side and to know really be rooted in that identity. So that was one of the main

Joelle Maryn (26:38.818)

things that I did, I went to adoration. went one time with a pen and paper and I said, like, Lord, show me all the lies that are in my heart that keeping me from you. And like 80 lies poured, I filled this paper up back and front. I was like, what? Like I thought maybe I had one or two things in the way and there was like 80 things in the way. And I thought that was really a red flag to me. We have some work to do. So healing and knowing who you are, it's ongoing, it does get easier.

I've memorized scriptures, have like prayer albums, I have all kinds of resources. Even in the book, there's a space for you to start like writing your blessings and the date and writing your constellations like the days where you felt filled with faith, hope and love.

And you heard, you know, God speak to you like what was that inspiration he gave you and to go back to that in moments of doubt We really need to say Jenna bark says the battle is first one or lost in the mind So we actually need to keep going back over and over again to the truth in the times of darkness So I also get deep into see Ignatius of Loyola who teaches us on discerning God's will

And that's a big part in the book. really like Become the Fire is about helping people hear God speak to them for sure. Like the fail-proof way is Amy Canesius of Loyola. But in addition, other ways he could speak through us through scripture, going to adoration, asking the Lord to place his dream in your heart for your life. You know, seeing what doors open and close in your life, following his lead and just completely surrendering.

Lindy Wynne (28:15.959)

Yes, thank you, Joelle. And I can tell that what you're saying is pouring out from your moments of intimacy with the Lord, which are many. And that the Lord has that relationship, that deeply intimate and personal relationship for each one of us. And you also use a lot of scripture.

when you talked about being in the world, but not of the world, you spoke of Jeremiah 29, 11, about that God has a hope-filled future for us. And you spoke to, there's a verse, I think it's in 1 Samuel, where it says that, man looks at outward appearance, but God looks inward at the heart. And you're speaking of all of these things. And I have these memories flooding back of being in the world and not of it. And there are things that before I would have felt

not embarrassed, but like also afraid to share like within a Catholic context. this I think is the point of the point of Christ is that when we lived across the country, one of my favorite places to go was this little dive restaurant, a phenomenal actually steakhouse, but it had a dive bar in it and they'd have music. And I used to joke with my husband and friends, like people belong here more than they even belong at church. And I don't mean churches in like Christ Church or like what not.

but just meaning that like, this is where real people go that are struggling with real things and are honest about these things and where they feel like they belong. And so there we were. And I remember we didn't go there a lot, but once in a while when I would go, there was almost always this one woman that was there drinking beer in the corner by herself. And I would go sit with her and my friends would go sit with her and just be with her. Just.

talk to her, spend time with her, whatnot. And I remember thinking like, this is what we're called to. Like we're called to be in the places, in the spaces, like you going back into TV and all the things that you thought that you'd be avoiding, but why to share the love of Christ? Like if we hold it to ourselves, if we hold it in the privacy, how do we share that love? How do we go to the table, the table where everybody belongs?

Joelle Maryn (30:35.022)

Yeah.

Lindy Wynne (30:35.1)

And just the other day I was in Goodwill because everybody probably knows at this point that listens regularly that I am a secondhand shopper. And this precious young man was near me and he asked me what I thought of something because he was looking for something for his girlfriend. And it was so providential because he said something like,

this is something that someone would probably wear to mass. And I thought, my goodness, like that is a God moment. And I said, you said mass. I said, are you Catholic? And he said, I was raised Catholic and I did not probe that because I just sensed by the Holy Spirit, don't go there because he knows that you're likely Catholic because you knew that word. And like that might, I just know like within myself and from my experience like,

Joelle Maryn (31:08.926)

Yeah.

Lindy Wynne (31:30.195)

he could turn away if I go directly there. So instead, I just spent time, he asked me for help looking for his girlfriend and I just spent time with him and I just listened to him and I tried to affirm him like, gosh, that's a really sweet, like that. How intentional of you to try to find a gift for your girlfriend and to think of her so fully. And he seemed really receptive and then, you know, at the end, I just wished him well and.

and whatnot and we said goodbye and it was a very sweet encounter and I will probably never encounter him again but my hope was to encounter him in the love of Christ and just for him to felt seen and filled and affirmed and yeah.

Joelle Maryn (32:08.622)

Mm-hmm.

Joelle Maryn (32:15.0)

Yeah, and it's things like that that he'll walk away and you made him feel good and he was doing something good and he without really realizing it probably perceived the light of Christ in you and you knew what mass was and so I think you know we can't underestimate the little things that we do each day. You know that could have been like the word of affirmation that he needed to keep on going you know and he mentioned also about secular stuff too and I will say like

I'm reading a secular book right now and it's not, I don't think this person's very religious, but they are taking years of psychology and neuroscience in the book. They're not getting into religion and any weird like manifesting or new age stuff. So I'm very happy about that. But on even just like to realize God created our bodies.

So, you know, he created our mind and our memories. And so there is a lot of even secular research out there that goes with the Bible, you know, that makes sense. Like, think heavenly thoughts. Think of good things. And God doesn't want us dwelling on the past. He doesn't want us reliving those memories. And essentially, this entire book is one of the best sellers, secularly, but I won't mention it because I'm not here, you know, to promote.

secularism, but the premise of it is the serenity prayer, although they don't mention the serenity prayer. It really is about you can't control other people's actions. People will disappoint you. All you can control is how you react to it and what you do, you know, and like your example of your friend that you're praying for. That is, you can't change that person.

And according to neuroscience, you know, getting on someone's case and saying, need to do a book about, well, that just shuts the person down. They feel ashamed. They probably already know deep down they need to be worked on and that's not going to create the result. But praying for them, maybe finding another way, you know, to say things where you're more encouraging them to change rather than.

Joelle Maryn (34:14.358)

you know pointing the finger like there actually is a way where the way God made us it is weaved into the culture and at the core of every single person whether they're with God or away he's in them in some extent you know he's still their child he still wants their conversion so just by like meeting people where they're at in the store

Like you said, it can be so powerful and continuing to encounter God for ourselves. So we even have him to give to other people and to become Eucharistic is very, very important.

Lindy Wynne (34:48.109)

Yes, and in Ignatian spirituality, there is the quote of finding God in all things. that's the thing, we're called to remain in God and abide in God. And you're talking about being Eucharistic people to be in God at all times by the grace of God. That's obviously not something that we can force, yet we can choose to turn towards God and in prayer and all the things in the hope of that infilling.

so that hopefully we carry that love deeply within us and that's what shines through, that light that shines through.

Joelle Maryn (35:23.746)

Yeah, and for anyone listening, like I'm not making this sound, I don't want this to sound easy because it's not, you I'm a stubborn Italian girl that, you know, like just have that Italian deep desires and passion within me that has to be, you know, cultivated and prayerful. And I need a lot of grace to not just say like, you know, like to fight for something the wrong way, but to fight in the spirit to.

bring things to prayer, think before I speak, you know, the mouth can bring a lot of positive things, but also we can be so quick, you know, to fight back in the wrong way without seeing behind the curtain what's really the battle about and what's the best tactics, you know, to fight that. So I'm not making any of this. I don't want to make any of this sound easy. I just want us to become aware.

of like there is this battle so that we're not lights in the world. The battle is against, you know, us using what God gave us to make the world a better place. And that's why we need to become the fire.

Lindy Wynne (36:23.567)

Yes, and what's coming to my heart is that the battle begins with me. Like we have to go to Christ ourselves and we have to be so deeply fortified every day and Lamentations, says God's mercies are new every morning. And what I'm hearing from you, Joel, and from my own experience too, is that I am fully dependent on God every morning, every moment. Like I'd like to stop the wrestle. Like I really, everybody, like it's kind of exhausting sometimes. I'm like,

Joelle Maryn (36:42.542)

you

Lindy Wynne (36:53.521)

my goodness, like in my own kind of humor, but yet reality, I'm like, my goodness, I am so dense. Like, it's like I re wrestle all the time and I'm kind of getting the sense that that is part of our humaneness. Yet the more we return to God, the more we know to return to God in a sense, like we are fortified and strengthened in that.

Joelle Maryn (37:14.222)

That is the battle. mean, my spiritual director and I were just talking about this yesterday. The battle is to wear you down where you're just like, okay, well, I'm just not gonna keep going with good stuff because it gives me all this, you know, warfare. So I'm just gonna stop. I'm tired. I'm gonna stop. Like the enemy wants you to give up and just live a mediocre life. He doesn't, you know, but the good news is it's almost a compliment that if you are battling or you are, you know, like

That means God's working in you. That means there's something that the enemy is resisting to get out there. And so take it as a compliment, but do not give up and just pray for more strength because that's exactly, the enemy just wants you to throw in the towel. Like this is too hard. Like I'm just, I can't do this. Like I just want a quiet, easy life, no crosses, you know? But that's just not our calling on this earth. Our calling on this earth is not about not having crosses.

It's about uniting them with Christ and to realize that we do have the hope of heaven. I mean, if this world was it, we'd all be in trouble. That's why he created heaven. That's why he died on the cross to save us, you know, and gave us eternal life. So we're not eternally stuck in chaos, but we have an eternal calling to heaven, which is perfect, where everyone does love each other, where everyone is kind, you know, where everyone is love because they're in love.

Lindy Wynne (38:33.871)

Yes, and I love how you brought up St. Joan of Arc and your own Italian feistiness. You said stubbornness and I have my own Irish feistiness. Yet to your point, we're called to use all of that for the Lord. That's how we're created. That's a wonderful thing because God will use us. God will use all the things, all the ways that we were created for him when we choose him in our own free will.

Joelle Maryn (38:43.598)

Thank

Joelle Maryn (39:02.23)

Yeah, yeah, I think anything can be reused and repurposed for good. So for me is like, I'm a fighter, but I just need to channel that fight to in prayer, you know, like I am stubborn in the sense of like, if God shows me something or I feel something in my heart, I will not give up, I won't go for it. So it can totally be used for good. But we have to be careful to not like, you know, let it go the wrong direction.

Lindy Wynne (39:26.885)

Yes, and I just want to share a quick little story, kind of what you've been talking to is the other day I had this meeting that I'd been kind of waiting for and I was really excited and I met with the executive director, I think that's her name of Catholic Charities and I believe she's going to be on Mamas in Spirit and I'm very, very excited for our Nashville area. And I left there feeling exhausted because I was asking all of these questions because I'm in my own discernment. like Ignatian spirituality, contemplative in action.

I was so excited to take action and meet and learn more. Like I wanted to learn more about their programming. I wanted to learn more about foster care in our area. I wanted to learn more about immigration in our area, just all the things in Catholic social teachings and the option for the poor and the vulnerable and how that's either not just hopefully being met in our area, but also like where are the needs? And I left exhausted, kind of to your point.

Joelle Maryn (40:22.795)

Thanks.

Lindy Wynne (40:24.464)

But like that's where the contemplative piece comes back to not give up, but to go back to prayer, to go back to Christ. You brought up adoration before to go sit in the silence. I love how you talked about those pages that you had of like lies of the enemies told you, because it's like in that intimacy, that is where the whisper that may feel like a shout will come from the Lord to give that sense of purpose and give that sense of clarity.

Joelle Maryn (40:48.994)

Yeah, yeah, and I think it's some people say, God doesn't speak to me. And that's another reason I wrote this book is he may speak to you differently because he knows how you'll perceive him, but he's omnipotent and omnipresent. He's all powerful. He's sovereign and he's everywhere. That means if you start paying attention even to your circumstances, what doors are opening, what doors are closing, you know, and I'm not saying to give up an all closed door. Sometimes, you know, there's a block there that needs to be removed.

but that's why we discern. But even like you could turn on the radio, maybe a song touches your heart and you just feel God speaking to you. I would say like, don't doubt in those moments. If something has a positive effect and you feel like God is connecting the dots on something, I would just trust that. Obviously if you have a spiritual director, bring everything to him, but we can't be afraid to think God would never speak to me or God would never use me. Like these are lies.

and he is trying to communicate whether that's through this podcast this morning, you know, like if he's speaking directly to your heart right now, there's a reason for that. When you go to church and you hear the gospel, you know, that weekend or one of the readings, if it's like connects with something that you've been asking God about. Also be sure to ask the Lord questions so that when he does answer you, you recognize it, but don't be afraid to ask the question like, what am I supposed to do with my life?

Can you please give me some first steps inspire me like he actually loves that relationship part and then be sure to listen to how he speaks. But it could be through the homily. It could be like I said through a song. It could be through a newsletter and you know, but you have to start surrounding yourself with people where you would hear God. You could hear him for sure like through a stranger and through secular music is very possible. He's everywhere whether people recognize him or not.

you're more likely to hear him if you start going to retreats and you start listening to holy podcasts like yours, you and you start going to church more often and hopefully daily mass if you can, or just reading, you know, doing lectio divina or reading the gospel for the day, taking time to listen, going to adoration. Like you need to put yourself in the situation. You know, one thing I did at one point, I went to the desert and I hung out with the Benedictine monks in silence for four days.

Joelle Maryn (43:09.462)

You know, and I heard God in a different way that time than he normally speaks to me. But I came back with my soul rested, my mind renewed, filled with prayer, seeing the ancient teachings of the church. And on Sundays, they're allowed to talk. So I got to get some, you know, kind of awesome ancient wisdom. I mean, the driveway to get to this place in the desert was an hour long driveway. get to like.

sign a waiver that if you die on the way in, it's not their fault. You know, that kind of thing, just because it's like, it's a dangerous thing. It's hidden in this national park. But to see this is still going on, that this depth of our faith exists, that there's people praying in the desert for all of humanity and getting to witness that. Like whatever you have to do, if you need to go to the desert, go to the desert. You know, if you can get away to a weekend retreat, go on a weekend retreat. If you can listen to this podcast, you know, and set a timer to like, make sure you listen to it.

Every day if you can do Lactea Divina, if you can go to Adoration, like whatever you can do, surround yourself to have a more chance of like experiencing God. Although he's everywhere, there's places and things you can do where you're more likely to hear him more loudly and clearly. And he does speak a lot in silence, you know, the world is loud. Social media is like, it's just clamoring for your attention. It's really distorting our thoughts and...

Lindy Wynne (44:10.148)

Mm.

Joelle Maryn (44:27.968)

and minds with just bombarding us with images and things. I I even like look for holy content on social media and all. know there's a lot out there. There's just, you don't get to pick and choose what pops up on your screen. And that's disturbing in a way, right? And so we need to find other ways to fill our minds and our hearts with good things so that we stay on the right path and we hear God speaking to us.

Lindy Wynne (44:53.727)

Amen, amen and alleluia. And that's so beautiful, Joelle. And you're setting my heart ablaze listening to you. this is a beautiful invitation from this podcast. One, to check out Joelle's book, which in a minute, Joelle, I'll have you share how we can do that. And then also to allow ourselves to be drawn to Jesus, to be drawn to Christ in all the ways.

Joelle Maryn (44:56.728)

You

Lindy Wynne (45:18.763)

And to say yes to that, I know from you talking, I'm like, I want to go to the desert. I want to go. I want to sign that waiver and drive down that road.

Joelle Maryn (45:24.11)

Like where do all these people come?

Lindy Wynne (45:29.411)

That sounds amazing to me. And yet what I'm hearing from you, Joel, is that there are an infinite number of ways to experience the infinite. And it does take our intentionality to, and our yes in that sense, to be present, to attend to, to abide in God's omnipresence. And so you have just listed so many ways.

much like Alexio Davina when Joelle was just talking, you can even rewind this mini retreat in a podcast and go back and listen to all of those things that Joelle shared. And there are so many more and see how is my heart drawn in this moment because like you're speaking to Joelle, one of the things that I have been trying to be very attentive to is like, even if I'm driving in my car, like to stay attentive to my space and my spiritual space in a day,

and to that deep spiritual need. So if I am driving in my car, what can I listen to right now? Either silence or maybe it's the sung version of the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, which is like one of my favorites, or worship music or other things of the sort, so that hopefully I am being attentive to God constantly offering me personally and intimately like each one of us that infilling of His holy love that I then hopefully can

pour out by His grace.

Joelle Maryn (46:59.702)

Yeah, and I just want to say, because it's coming to my heart right now, that there's people listening to this that do hear God and they doubt, you know, is it you, is it you, is it you? And there's some level of healthiness to like, obviously discern. But I just need to set the record straight on this because there is an unholy fear.

that's out there, especially in Catholic circles. I would say even more so than some of the other denominations where it's, is this the devil? this like just this crazy unholy fear? And here's what the Lord has put on my heart. A soul that is in a state of grace that is trying to hear God, that wants to please him.

The nature of God would never allow such a soul to be deceived without that darkness coming to the light. That is not who God is. God wants you to know his will for your life. He wants you to hear him. He wants you to move forward in that. He wants you to prosper. He has good plans. It says plans to prosper you. And so I would just say if you

I think you're hearing from God and you're doubting, but it has good fruit and you've used the rules of discernment and hopefully, like I said, you have a spiritual director as well. Don't doubt like God will communicate with you and help whatever way he pleases, whatever way he knows that you will receive him. And if you tell someone else, they may not understand it because it's so unique to you, but do not.

Doubt, know, continue, obviously look at the check the fruit of everything. Have a spiritual director, know, discern things, but do not be afraid. This is not who God is. And I see so much fear. you had a dream. Is it the enemy? you had this. That people have dreams. It's in the Bible. People have visions. It's in the Bible. People hear God. It's in the Bible.

Joelle Maryn (49:02.956)

You don't have to experience him in some supernatural way like that. He is working and weaving through your life. But to say everything's not good and everything's evil, that's not of God. To be afraid of everything that's not of God, we need a healthy, holy fear of God.

fear of doing the wrong thing that could hurt him or hurt ourselves or hurt others. But we need to trust that God loves us. He has a plan. He wants to speak to us and we need to know his attributes and his nature. And you can always pray like, Lord, if this is not of you, you know, bring it to the light. I think it's you speaking to me, but keep moving with your day. God, you know, he has a plan. He's not just going to abandon you. He's not going to let the enemy take over your mind. I know so many

really amazing Catholics that tell me the battle of their mind and they're just believing these lies and Throwing everything else away. And so for the people listening that you're battling with this right now I'm gonna tell you that God is speaking to you that God will not allow you to be deceived as long as you continue to surrender to him continue to be in a state of grace and continue to ask him

to guide you and sure ask him to bring darkness to the light. It's okay. But do not be afraid. God will not deceive you. Deception is not in his nature. He is all love. And I have a whole section in the book called, Wouldn't He? Why wouldn't he want you to hear him? Why wouldn't he want good for your life? Why wouldn't he speak to you? Why wouldn't he have

good plans, why wouldn't he love you? Why wouldn't he accept you? Why wouldn't, fill in the blank, whatever you're struggling in, whatever your doubt is, why wouldn't he want the best for you?

Lindy Wynne (50:49.661)

Amen, Joelle, I just love you. You are a treasure. Thank you. I feel like you are just pouring out your heart and your soul and that is a great gift and a great gift of wisdom, but just you are a gift. So I just wanna thank you so much for coming on Mamas in Spirit. how can everybody go find your book? Please tell us about playing our blessed mother. Everyone's gonna wanna know about that.

Joelle Maryn (51:11.054)

Yeah, so the film I'm in is called The New Manna and it's really beautifully done. It's not quite a docudrama. It is more like a feature film, but it is based on Eucharistic Miracles. So there's some scientific evidence and Dr. Scott Hunt is in it, Father Donald Calloway, Father Rippinger, know, lot of people you know, and then I'm in the live action part with The Passion of Christ and stuff. And so...

Yeah, so that's still in the process. I thought we were done filming but there's more and so I call my alma durandii I can't talk too much about it, but it is something to keep your eyes out for we Appreciate the planting of seeds even now before it's out for people. It does come out spread the word I'm super excited. I didn't play the role of Our Lady. I had to pray the role of Our Lady It was a great blessing. I was actually spent four years in the secular Carmelites, OCDS

Lindy Wynne (51:50.432)

Mm-hmm.

Joelle Maryn (52:05.654)

And so I had four years of studying Our Lady. couldn't, I made my first promises, but I couldn't make the meetings anymore because of travel. But I'm still like Carmelite spirituality and Ignatian spirituality, you know, are so deeply, and Benedictine, I guess I'm all of them Dominican. They're all in my heart, that help. But you just, you know, realize that God, he loves you. He repurposes everything that we've been through and, you know, to play.

pray the role of Our Lady is probably the greatest, is the greatest honor I'll ever receive. There'll never be a better role than that. And you can find out more of my, you can get my book on Amazon. That's the best place to get it. Or if you're in Australia or New Zealand, Prusia Media, we now just got international distribution. Excited about that. And my website is joelmarin.com. If you can link it up on the podcast or the video, joelmarin.com.

and you can find out all about my ministry and everything else I'm doing at my speaking events around the country.

Lindy Wynne (53:08.123)

Wonderful, thank you Joelle. And just so everyone knows it's J-O-E-L-L-E-M-A-R-Y-N. Wonderful, thank you so much. And thank you everyone for gathering. Let us close in prayer in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen. Dearest Lord, you are a generous God. Joelle said earlier how you are the way maker. You are the way maker, Lord. And so I just pray for you to open all of our hearts by your grace.

Joelle Maryn (53:14.541)

Yes.

Lindy Wynne (53:37.319)

and make a way for us to be closer to you, to abide more fully in you, to reside in you and to know your profound and intimate love for each one of us, amen. In name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen. You can go to mamasinspirit.com for many more faithful podcasts. Please review, like and subscribe to Mamas in Spirit. It is always a blessing to be together. Can't wait to be together again next time. This is Lindy Wynne with Mamas in Spirit. May God bless you and yours.

Always.