Coping with Change with Mary Dolan

“So many times transitions involve pain and tears.”

Mary Dolan has remained deeply engaged in her relationship with Christ throughout times of change in her life.

Recently, Mary faced retirement and wondered, “Does one truly retire from loving and serving the Lord?

In this series, “Women of Wisdom,” Mary explores the vulnerability of change. She shares how she has learned to sit in silence, listen to God, and respond to Him calling her into new seasons of love and service.

Listen and learn how to navigate difficult times of transition. Discover how to embrace change, trust Christ completely, and live every season of your life on fire with the love of God!

Transcript:

Lindy Wynne (00:01.671)

Welcome to Mamas in Spirit, a podcast pointing you towards God in everything you are and everything you do. I'm Lindy Wynne and it's a blessing to be with you. Hello everyone, welcome. Welcome to this mini retreat in a podcast. It's time for us to gather our hearts together, hopefully in the heart of the one who loves us most, the Sacred Heart of Jesus. And today it is just a joy to be here for this series, Women of Wisdom.

with Mary Dolan. Mary, thank you for joining us.

Mary Dolan (00:34.488)

Thank you, I feel honored to be here today.

Lindy Wynne (00:36.907)

Well, and at the heart of some of what you're gonna be sharing, think, Mary, is that this is a very full circle moment because we connected what seems to be a long time ago that in God's time is not that long ago. But I was blessed to give the keynote talk at a conference that you attended in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, yet you already listened to Mamas in Spirit and we did not know each other until we met.

that day and by God's good providence we connected, we ate lunch together if I'm correct, right? Yes, at that lovely group of table. It was like us all gathering at the well together around that round table and sharing our hearts and stories and God had a plan for us.

Mary Dolan (01:07.128)

We did, yes we did, yes.

Mary Dolan (01:19.564)

Yeah, and I think that in my life, I've always been very interested in whatever stage women are at. And from being a single woman to a newly married woman to first having children and that journey. And I've always been a researcher looking for resources to help me through, not to mention, you know, the prayer over everything. And then moving into having adult children. And then

retirement and before you know it, blessed with grandchildren and always transitioning but wanting to learn. think sometimes they say we teach best what we need to learn. And so I just started to transition, as you said, into this retirement phase when I met you. And I feel too like I'm an advocate for women my age in a time when the baby boomers, we are taking over with great numbers in this

know, blessed opportunity to have longevity and hopefully good health with that and to realize that, you know, the research can't even keep up with us because it's happening fast and furious. So I really started to dig in, find some resources that were helpful and realize that my MO, so to speak, has not changed. I've always been one that every time I transitioned, especially in the career world, I would start with a prayer of JBiz.

Lindy Wynne (02:46.122)

Yes, wonderful, and I'm so excited for you to open us in this mini retreat with that prayer today. And I'd like to say real quick, Mary, that this is why I asked you to be in this mini retreat in a podcast is because you continue to seek the Lord with all your heart and all your soul. And I think one of the things that I've observed ever since I was a small child, that it was the adults really in my life that sought the Lord and allowed the Lord to fill them.

and pilgrimage with them in the depths of their very being and call them were the adults that were fully alive and had a spiritual buoyancy to them that I longed to understand more fully. And clearly I'm still on that journey myself. And that's why we're all here gathered today. So in that spirit, in the Holy Spirit, I'd love for you to open us in prayer.

Mary Dolan (03:38.062)

Sure, so this prayer comes from First Chronicles 4 10, the prayer of Jabez. Oh, that you would bless me indeed and enlarge my territory, that your hand would be with me and that you would keep me from evil, that I may not cause pain.

Amen. I feel that especially in the times of great transition when you felt called to maybe make a change and that it was scary, right? But it felt more right than wrong. And I feel that this prayer was my guide and asking the Lord, open doors, but please close them too if I'm not supposed to go that direction,

Lindy Wynne (03:59.218)

Amen.

Mary Dolan (04:23.334)

And I like the part about protection because I feel when you are putting the Lord before you and you are following him, you know, this is when some evil can show up around you, right? When you're doing the Lord's work and to be cognizant of that and, but to know no matter what shows up around you, when you are following the Lord, you will be protected. So I really love that piece and someone had given me the book, there was a prayer in Jabez for women.

that was handed to me long ago, and it spoke a little bit more to younger stages of life than where I am now, but it is a great resource, and I have no idea who handed that to me.

Lindy Wynne (05:04.957)

Yes, and I love how you're talking about all transitions because for all of us gathered, we may be at very different transitional points in our life, yet they're usually vulnerable for all of us. And it's, love what you're saying too about how kind of the devil shows up when we're doing God's work. And it's interesting, it struck my heart before because Mary, you may know, and many of you listening may know that after moving four years ago by the grace of God, a very vulnerable time,

across the country to Franklin, Tennessee from Southern California, we ended up moving on to land and there was a she shed on our property. And over time, I felt drawn and called by the Lord to change this she shed into a little prayer chapel. It's literally a Catholic prayer chapel and it looks like a tiny little church. It's really dear. And I was just in there before recording because even if I go in there for a moment,

It's like being in like for lack of, I don't know why this works, but like a womb. Like it feels so sacred and like I'm so deeply held in the sacred heart of Christ, even if I'm in there for a moment. Like sometimes I'll just kind of dash into there for a second if I sense God drawing me for that centering and for that infilling. And Mary, I know that that is where symbolically

and maybe literally in your own churches and places and spaces that you've gone to discern God's will for you in your life in tender times and vulnerable times and times of transition. So I'd love for you to start at the beginning of your story because I know in many ways when I met you in Harrisburg, in a sense, God had started a new work in you that was unfolding. And now you by the grace of God,

You are in very different place because of your small f fiat, your yes.

Mary Dolan (07:05.442)

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that it is important to start with that I was baptized Catholic. My family heritage was Catholic all the way back to Germany, Sicily, my Irish roots. But our Catholicism, for different reasons, came to a screeching halt here in the US. But my friends, I grew up in Pittsburgh. My friends were all Catholic. We would pretend that we did First Communion if we weren't. And it was a time, too. I was born in 1954.

where you could not even maybe go to a youth group in a Catholic church if you weren't Catholic. So it was an interesting navigation, but always felt very drawn. Fast forward to, you know, the Jesus revolution started rolling across the US and the charismatic movement. And I found myself in the midst of living room prayer groups with guitars and whatnot. And just started to, I think, come into a more personal.

knowledge of Christ in your life and went off to West Virginia University. I don't know, you know, this is so interesting. There is a place called the Good Council Friary that in the midst of this very charismatic time, hundreds of students would flock to this Good Council Friary on Wednesday nights. And we were in the midst of, many of us were first-generation college students navigating college where our parents were World War II veterans.

at a time when no one had gone before us. And we were doing the college scene, but then we were at the Good Council Friary on Wednesday nights getting grounded. And then as I went off to do my career in speech pathology and audiology, I just landed in a place that was the first time ever, financial security, making a new way as a first gen student, but just not feeling I should be there. I think so many times transitions involve tears and pain that we grow through.

But I really felt called to come back to the university. And I remember even praying for my husband, my family. There was a lot of conflict growing up in my family and I just knew that the Lord would give you what is good. You ask what is good. And I prayed about this man I had never even met. And I went to West Virginia. I went back as a graduate student in counseling. And the very first day I was there, I met Kevin. And he is my Notre Dame husband.

Mary Dolan (09:30.158)

And at that time in my life, I don't think I knew where Notre Dame even was. This is 1977. so anyway, the rest, they say, is history in the sense that, you know, I married into the Notre Dame family. My husband always respected my own choices, but I felt very drawn to convert to Catholicism after my first daughter. And just felt my husband teases me that he brought me back to the right side.

But it was a very personal choice and the right choice has been beautiful in that regard. So I think my Presbyterian background gave me a lot of more biblical foundation. I'm certainly not a biblical scholar, but I think you have shared before too that you had converted as well. So I think we all bring different backgrounds, but it always still, it always still drills down to who do you say Jesus is?

It really does. And I recently just completed a program. I was accepted to the University of Notre Dame and their inspired leadership initiative, which I felt very called to come to. And it was a big risk. I have never lived away from my husband in 46 years, not alone on my own. So we dated again, right? And I just had this honor to be at the university. And actually, I mentioned that, who do you say Jesus is? Because I had the honor of taking

Lindy Wynne (10:43.164)

you

Mary Dolan (10:57.038)

the history of Jesus Christology through the ages Unbelievable and that was the final essay questions now in this program as an auditor. You don't take the test Or do the papers, but you certainly read all the assignments Yeah, and I think too is in sense of transition the stage of life and how our society sees aging people The students were my most joyous surprise. They welcomed

us into the class and valued our wisdom. We're old enough now that we talk about events, most events, that they were not born yet, right? So you bring perspective in. One girl interviewed me even on what it was like before Title IX existed. So yeah, so I'm just coming back. I just came back from Notre Dame, and I feel it definitely enriched my calling to do more with my passion about this stage of life for women.

Not real sure exactly how that's gonna unfold at this point, but that's where I land. And I think Notre Dame's program, which was framed under discover, discern and design, there was 13 of us from across the United States and two women from Africa. And it was a lot of people, corporate success, retired people.

And it really turned things upside down in the sense of this is not a time for your hardcore goals, objectives, and measurable outcomes to really, really stop and learn more about discernment. And I think in our society today, and you can tell I am a verbal person, it's hard to get quiet. It's hard to find quiet. And I feel the program at Notre Dame,

with the grotto that's there and the beautiful basilica just this just being with the Golden Dome with Mary atop if if the listeners have never been to Notre Dame I'm a little biased but it's worth a stop and That we really can't hear the Lord's voice if we don't get quiet and I think with technology today and So many demands that we all have on us Yeah, I started to think

Mary Dolan (13:11.494)

that how can I even discern even if I have the right prayer in front of me if I don't stop and listen.

Lindy Wynne (13:20.985)

Yes, if I don't stop and listen. And Mary, you said earlier that sometimes transitions involve tears. And I think that transition touches on our fragility as humans. And when we love the Lord with all our hearts, our desire to seek the Lord and to know God's will for our life. I think that, and I've read before, like when we're in God's will, that's when we're fully alive.

when we're truly engaged in life and sharing the mission and the kingdom and God's kingdom looks so different than what our secular understanding of kingdom is. Like I think of everyone belonging at the table and I think of vulnerability and I think of our option for the poor and the vulnerable and how can we help other souls in the words of St. Ignatius who is such really an expert by the grace of God in discernment itself.

And so Mary, speaking of souls, and we talked about this a little bit, is that you have been a glorious educator by the grace of God. That's a great gift of yours. And yet this is the story of your soul. And so that's what these mini retreats are. They're stories of souls and hopefully to crack open all of our souls more to the grace and the goodness, the glory of God, the love of God. And so I would love if you could share with me.

if there's a moment even in this most recent transition or another one, any transition really, in your life and in your experience where you felt really tender and really fragile in it and that you were really looking for and searching for and trying to listen to the voice of God and how you heard the voice of God drawing you.

Mary Dolan (15:06.19)

Yeah, sure, Lindy. I think too that as women, whatever stage we're in, I think we're all in. I don't know if it's just our nature nurturing aspect, but... And then all of a sudden that moment ends and you don't think it is. When you're in the midst of raising children, you can't fathom that you'll drop the last one off a college or wherever they might go and you're in the kitchen and they're gone.

And so it just seems like the transitions, they feel like they come hard and fast, even though it is gradual over time. So I think in that moment when things are suddenly different, even if it's your child is not walking and you can't wait till they walk, and then all of sudden they're walking and you're trying to wrap your mind around why the child that goes off to school doesn't seem to need you in the same way. So we're constantly dealing with

change that is gradual, but can feel like it happens in a moment. I think when it comes to especially the phase of retirement is that you have to really look at the sociological background of retirement. That there was a time when our longevity was maybe to age 50, right? Then it increased to maybe be 70. And now you can retire, if you are able to retire, you have to look at

the many realities that not every woman facing retirement has the same choices in front of them, right? You absolutely cannot, it's not a one size fits all by any means. But when it happens and all of a sudden, you're peeking at, well, maybe I have 20 more years. And so what do I do with this? The days of retirement where you sat on the rocking chair because maybe you only had five years left is really not the case.

And I think some of the reading and studying that I did helped me to look at that you still need purpose. You still need purpose. And I think as a woman sometimes we maybe don't even dig hard because the purpose just seems to come at you, right? Especially in raising children, you're in it and your purpose is just there. And then when...

Mary Dolan (17:23.222)

especially in this stage when that's removed and you still are involved, know, very blessed with our adult children or grandchildren, but you don't have primary responsibility anymore. And then that feeling of, what do I do? How do I still serve the Lord? I mean, you know, it's just different. And what do I do with that? And I think that it begins with that question.

It begins with that question. I feel that Matthew 7-7 has been a guiding force for me my whole life of ask, seek, and knock. And I think I realized that, well, why am I struggling? Because it's normal that I wonder. It's normal that I seek again. It's normal that I ask and that I knock. I think your MO doesn't change just because you're retired.

just because you're older. And yeah, and I feel we all need a sense of purpose. But yeah, the vulnerability I think is when you sit in that moment of change, it feels scary. It feels scary. You we all say, you know, can't wait till the kids leave home. We'll have all this time. And then I remember dropping our last off at college and my husband and I sat at the kitchen table and we went, hi. hello. Because in a nanosecond, things changed, right?

And then you have to make adjustments. I feel there's a lot of psychology to back that adjustments are necessary. And life is a series of necessary adjustments. It's not healthy to not adjust, right? So then you open up that, say, what does that mean?

Lindy Wynne (19:07.199)

Yes, and it reminds me of with every death we believe comes new life. And by letting something go, the death of a season, the end of a season comes new life. And sometimes it does mean grieving and mourning what was and trusting and believing in the goodness of God and what will come, which you touched on that trust of that goodness, which is so beautiful, Mary. And I appreciate too what you're saying about

Mary Dolan (19:24.75)

Right. Right.

Mary Dolan (19:31.95)

Yeah.

Lindy Wynne (19:37.249)

that in a nanosecond things can change because this is kind of intense, but that's how I roll. We've had a loved one who has been quite sick and it's very vulnerable for our family and it's very vulnerable for our youngest. And she's 10 and she brought up death, almost like why does death have to be a part of life?

Mary Dolan (19:46.038)

It's okay, so do I.

Lindy Wynne (20:06.39)

I love that she talks about it. I love that she just doesn't carry that silently within her because I think that that can bring with it so much propensity that can compound if we don't face what is, what is true, what is really a part of life. And so we talked about it and we don't have the answers for all the things in life, but yet we can empathize and we can understand and be with one another like by the grace of God, God is with us.

And so I appreciate that you say within a nanosecond, things can change. Yet when we live freely, I think, and fully, like when we engage fully in the day and the moment and the season that we're in and we're fully alive, by the grace of God, we can also experience great peace, even in the transitions.

Mary Dolan (20:55.074)

Yes, absolutely. And I think that for a while I was starting to save the flyers. I thought maybe I could wallpaper a wall with the flyers that started coming at us once we became ARP eligible. And you know, it's very interesting because you have to stop and think about the message from society too.

Right? And it's about financial planning and have you thought about if you're ill, who's going to take care of you? I mean, it's a lot of negativity that is thrown at you. They are realities. Right. And there's some has been said harsh realities of aging that we all need to to look at. And in this stage of life, when, you know, your parents do pass and friends, know, illness is common to

to not have that be your focus of the day, right? It doesn't mean you're not realistic about aging, but you have to choose your focus of the day. And I think that as a Christian woman, I'm so grateful that I'm not saying I don't get in a slump, right? I'm not saying that I don't like, what is my purpose? But when I can re-circle back to say, listen, I have...

always done my very best to say, what does the Lord want to do with my life? You know, what does he want to do? That should not change that desire because you are retired, because you are aging. Matter of fact, it's really fun. There is only one place in the entire Bible where retirement is mentioned. And it's from, it's from Leviticus, Leviticus, yeah, it's from Numbers, Numbers 8, 23 through 26.

And in all the research I've done, it always points to it's the only time retirement is mentioned. And the Lord said to Moses, this applies to the Levites, men 25 years old or more shall come to take part in the work at the tent of meeting. But at the age of 50, they must retire from their regular service and work no longer. They may assist their brothers in performing their duties at the tent of the meeting, but they themselves

Mary Dolan (23:07.424)

must not do the work. And I think that's so beautiful. I'm not sure what that really means, because most people didn't live to be 50 in the biblical days. But I love the fact that the Lord is suggesting you don't have to do the heavy lift, as in setting up the tent of meeting. However, it didn't say, go away and be no more, right? It said you may assist. And I think that

We have so much wisdom to share. This is something that I definitely saw in the the Notre Dame students that embraced the older person in the back row through the ILI program is that they really embraced your wisdom, which is from life experience. So I think it's kind of fun that the Bible never says that you should retire. It's only mentioned one time because as long as we're here on this earth,

You know, we do have purpose and from the time we were born, and I think that this is where people get lost. This is when I think depression starts to set in, is when you don't know if you have purpose. And it's not necessarily if you are fortunate enough to not have to be employed during this time, because there are lots of statistics showing the number of people my age that must work. Right. So if you're in a in a situation where you can choose to not work,

your day is not structured the same. You have to think out of the box, right, as to back again that discernment. Where does the Lord want me? Is there a moment in my prayers before I retired was that the Lord would utilize my gifts, my talents, my skills that I picked up along the way, right, for there to be career or as a mother, a wife, and utilize this in

quote, volunteer capacity, right? And that unfolded pretty fast. It was like, whoa! Right, when you pray something, put on your seatbelt. And it became very evident that I did have gifts and skills that were transferable, but that was also a time of transition because the volunteer world is not identical, right, to the career world.

Mary Dolan (25:25.59)

But again, I think it's that openness, it's that discernment. think a piece of advice I would give to those that are not quite at that stage is, you know, take that time for prayer and discernment before you jump in. There is so much need in today's world. You can volunteer and so many people you'll hear say, I work harder now than when I was paid. You know?

It's like, yes, yes, OK, sure, I'll be there. And then I think just like anything, you spread yourself too thin in any stage of life, then you start to wonder, is my being at the table really a value add? So I think a piece of advice that I have is just breathe and pray about it and look for that discernment because the needs are all there. And you could quickly say yes to something that's worthy, but then you start to struggle.

and feel like is this really where I'm supposed to be. So yeah, I mean, that's a piece that I continue to work on in a daily basis.

Lindy Wynne (26:31.678)

Sure, sure and it reminds me of Ignatian discernment of being a contemplative in action is that we contemplate with the Lord prayerfully and then we act so we may choose to do something but this is cyclical and ongoing all the time and even every day of our lives that we then are contemplating with this new information from our action to continue to discern the will of God within our lives.

And Mary, I love that you talk about even though we may retire if we are so blessed to be able to do that from Pied work, that we are always called to partake, to fulfill our part as the many parts in one body in the mission of Christ, in the mission of love itself, and to care for souls, to love and to be loved. And I tell my husband, I almost feel like I'm preparing him. I'm like,

I never planned on retiring. And the funny thing is, like, Mama's in spirit is a ministry. Yet I feel like I hope by the grace of God to love and serve the Lord by His grace every day of my life until hopefully and prayerfully I'm with Him eternally. Like that never ends, that call never ends. And we never know when we're gonna be called home as well. And so Mary, let me ask you this.

because I'm actually in a time of discernment and kind of to your point, because everybody who's listening, I have two older children who are 26 and 23. We adopted at six and three and they both are living with disabilities and they have both needed a tremendous amount of support for the 2021 years that we've been blessed to be their parents through the gift of adoption. And then we also have our youngest who's 10.

And she's neurotypical and so while she definitely needs us and needs our presence and all the things, the act of parenting her is different. It's just the demands are different and they manifest in different ways. But I do all kinds of activities and things with her and her friends. And just as a side note, because it's hilarious, Mary, when you were talking about like how children, little Catholic children will share, and I was not raised as a Catholic child.

Lindy Wynne (28:45.425)

will share the body and blood of Christ, I will literally be taking these children and wear a little ecumenical carpool to gymnastics. And they're back there with their snacks, the body of Christ. I mean, it is hilarious. I find it very delightful and very endearing, especially never having experienced that, but having heard that myself before to witness that. And then the way they so openly explain it to one another, if they're of different denominations, it's just, it's so tender and so precious. And so anyways,

With Mamas in Spirit and it's really not sensical. It's like it's sensical, but it's like not of this world There is a mustard seed that has been planted in me for a very long time like many many years about like Lord what? What are you drawing me to next because I sense that within me and I even made a commitment like a promise in a sense when I was down at the the

my goodness, I'm blanking on the name of it right now. I was down in the Coleman, Alabama area at the Blessed Sacrament. my goodness. It will come to me in a minute. Anyways, I made a promise there that I would fulfill this draw and this call from the Lord that I know little inklings about, but it hasn't taken full form yet. And so I'm not taking action.

Like I know that in less there's clarity and I know this based on my history. Like my husband, Brian and I, we have dove into very big things for the Lord before, like the adoption of our children. We received them both at once, they're biological siblings. We went from a family to two, to a family of four in a nanosecond of a yes, of a small F fiat to the Lord. And then we adopted our youngest, which was...

a change in a nanosecond. was a small f fiat for the Lord that came from discernment. And then we've done things like moving across the country, which was absolutely tremendous. Like it was such a leap of faith. And so I know when there's clarity because I've experienced clarity before. So I'm living in that liminal space and I've been living this in this liminal space, just gathering contemplative inaction, gathering more information, looking for the will of God, listening to the voice of

Lindy Wynne (31:06.684)

The Lord is seeking the will of God, but in peace, in peace, not trying to jump something. Mary, what advice would you have for me or for others listening?

Mary Dolan (31:14.518)

You know, yeah, I, you know, one thing there's, there's a couple of things that, and I apologize for my, my barking dog in the background. I think too, there's two things that comes to mind. I, you know, I want to just read this one little piece quickly here from Kalash. One second, flipping through my pages here as well.

Lindy Wynne (31:22.831)

I can't even hear your dog, you're great.

Lindy Wynne (31:37.595)

Take your time, I love your love of scripture.

Mary Dolan (31:39.932)

sure, yeah. So Colossians 3.17 says, and whatever you do in word or deed, do everything in the name of Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. And then Colossians 3.23.24 says, whatever you do heartily as for the Lord and not for man, knowing that from the Lord you will receive inheritance as your reward, you are serving Lord Jesus Christ.

So I think, you know, we're always bumping up against what the world feels we should do. You know, it's so interesting. Even when I applied to Notre Dame, we had to describe whether or not we felt we were accomplished in our field, right? And, you know, it's like, you know, what does that actually mean? So I think sometimes too, we have to be very careful to not measure up what it is we seek to do or even feel called to do.

is to whether or not in the eyes of the world, right, it's worthy. I think that's a really tricky piece. And I do feel another thing is that our society comes at us strong. Listen, I'm for wellness. Don't get me wrong. And there's lots of pieces that show you need to walk every day, laugh every day, right? Mental health, all these things totally matter. However, sometimes the wellness circles don't talk about faith.

right? And getting outside of yourself. So I think too, when we're discerning what to do, yes, we need to take care of ourselves. But I think we need to not just answer the world's call for it to be me, myself, and I. I think that's a balance too. And then I think the other piece in discernment, because I will say it never ends. I will say it never, you know, one minute I'm thinking, I should start a study group on retirement. The next minute,

I want to teach a class on how to make crepes. It just continues, it continues. But there is a resource that I have not connected with the author. have just thoroughly, so if nothing in this for me, I totally enjoy this resource. hope to, I'm discerning whether or not I'll have an opportunity to have a book club on, it's called An Uncommon Guide to Retirement, Finding God's Purpose for the Next Season of Life.

Mary Dolan (34:02.506)

I love this resource. And in this resource, he poses a couple of questions to your question. What is God doing in the world today that captures your imagination? What do you see that is good and needs encouragement? Or what do you see that's broken and missing? And I love that. I love that because, and sometimes just unfolds. When I was at Notre Dame, what captured my imagination was the needs of some of the first generation college students in an elite university.

that we're struggling to with the imposter syndrome and do I belong here? I didn't know that would unfold, right? But it captured my imagination immediately. I saw it as a hurt that needed to be addressed. What gets your attention when you look at the world today? I think that's a beautiful question. And who are you? What skills, gifts, and knowledge and areas of wisdom do you have to bring to the table? And especially in this stage of life,

Are there areas of yourself that you were not able to nourish? As we were digging in in the day-to-day pieces, it doesn't mean you necessarily should start a new business, right? Because there are luxuries of retirement where you want the flexibility and so on. But are there pieces of yourself that, I was very blessed, my career was also my calling. I was in bullying prevention and school climate improvement for almost 30 years. Not everybody's work is their calling.

you know, in the sense of helping. So sometimes this new stage of life frees you up to answer that piece of you that maybe you've never utilized or examined. Setting goals in this time of life is different, you know. There is a flexibility, but always honoring that, as I mentioned earlier, that it's not a one size fits all. Like I I never take it for granted that

I've landed in a place for today, right? Because we never know what tomorrow holds, where I do have the luxury, and I call it a luxury, to answer the Lord's call in a very broad and flexible way. There are many people my age that really, have to still bring in an income. However, I would say that doesn't stop you from answering God's call, right?

Mary Dolan (36:25.806)

in that place of work or in the time that you have to do some volunteering. And I think that, yeah. So I think that it said, grabs you? What grabs you? What's that fire in your soul? And often it comes from your beginnings. With having a family with lots of conflict, watching my brother be bullied for unidentified needs that back in the day, no one...

new, right, different support services that weren't available. I still have a passion in my soul for the underserved child, for the marginalized youth, right? And now I'm old enough to do the life map and say, where did that come from? Well, I can tell you where that came from. But when I first launched my career, I didn't know that I was answering to that passion in my belly.

Lindy Wynne (37:20.558)

That's really beautiful what you just said, Mary. Is there a story from your childhood where you witnessed your brother being bullied that then propelled you that you're aware of now into your lifelong work? That's really moving. It shows your love for your brother.

Mary Dolan (37:34.338)

Yes, absolutely. So my brother, he was evaluated at almost age 60 with the adult autism test and found to be on the spectrum. Andy had learning disabilities before there was, he was dyslexic before the word had ever been discovered. So he always was like a little bit different and he was held back a year because that's what you did back then. And so...

I lived in the baby boomer, 50 kids in the neighborhood out playing, kick the can and hide and seek and everything. And I witnessed on a regular basis young people trying to understand themselves why my brother was quote different. And then I saw that of course evolve into his teenage years. He was now only a year ahead of me because they had held him back. And I was like, you know, the popular

girl, I was the one that was well-liked to fit within the norms. And then people would say, is he your brother? So even as a sibling with a special needs child before there was such a thing identified in that way, I was always just carrying this, carrying this. And actually when he did his evaluation, and interesting enough is, as you know, the icon for autism is the puzzle piece.

And even my brother said in the evaluation, I had the honor of being there with all the results and so on. They wanted someone in the evaluation that knew him since childhood. And he asked me to be there. And he said, it's like he didn't even know the icon. And he said, it's like I can put that missing puzzle piece in place and understand myself better. So I think in life, right, we can all be caring and sympathetic, but I think empathy comes from you've been there.

you've done that, right? And so, yeah, but I had no idea that that was going to take me into a career of bullying prevention. I didn't, I think the Lord knew that. I know the Lord knew that, but I didn't know that. I would say what happens is that, you your call, you feel this draw to address something. And then when you are my age, you can look back and you can connect the dots.

Mary Dolan (39:52.214)

and you can see, because I had personal experience, that's where my deep level, I had so many people say to me, my career after I presented or whatever trainings, they'd say, Mary, you're so passionate. that was the most common word. You're so passionate about bullying prevention and standing for the rights of marginalized youth. And that comes from deep within your soul, right?

from experience for sure. So yeah, that's my story. I'm happy to say, you know, my brother is doing quite well. We've been able to have a relationship now. We have a beautiful adult relationship because in those years when he was young and he didn't understand his own differences, I didn't understand his own differences. We really grew up in the same house, but not as true siblings, you know, but now.

He always calls me and says, hey, little sister. And he's finally able to be my big brother. And he has helped navigate some of the hard losses that come at this stage of life and truly stepped up to be the big brother I really never had. So yeah, that's where my passion started.

Lindy Wynne (41:02.666)

I feel like that's a story of your soul, Mary, for sure. And I'm so deeply moved by it on so many levels. And I didn't expect you to say that you, in a sense, didn't feel close to him or that you weren't able, capable really, of being as bonded as children. Yet it almost makes me teary thinking that here you still spent your whole career, like your love for him. This is a real outpouring and it...

It shows the work of the Holy Spirit and the selflessness and the goodness and the generosity of God's love that you still spent your whole career advocating for him. Like love is an act of the will and you willed to love your brother. You willed and then the redemption that came from all those years because I thought that my children were old when they were each diagnosed with their disabilities because

It was very complicated. I feel like the years that our older children were growing up and going through all their school years, it was so layered because they had been removed from their birth family either at birth or after a small number of years with them. And then there are multiple foster care placements. And then we didn't know what happened exactly in utero. And then...

They have a lot of trauma that happened in those foster care years as well. And then they came to us. And so it took so many years to sift through what's trauma, what's a developmental disability, what's mental illness. Like there are so many different threads that ultimately those are just boxes that make up this precious human being or these precious human beings. And I thought they were old, that they got diagnosed with their disabilities that are so

They're such a significant part of kind of their experience in life and color their experience in a certain way, for lack of a better word to explain it. When they were late teens, but you're talking 60 years old. I mean, to me, I am so endeared that your brother asked you to be in that room with him and to be there with him. I mean, that shows such intimacy and a sense of safety.

Mary Dolan (43:19.522)

Yeah. Yeah.

Lindy Wynne (43:25.161)

that he has with you that is a blessing beyond measure that just speaks mounds to me. And to say that now you have the older brother that you always long for because Mary, so many of us could feel that way about a brother or brothers or siblings in general, or our siblings could, if we have them could want that for us that we may not have for a tremendous number of reasons that may have nothing to do with living with disabilities.

Mary Dolan (43:49.804)

happened right exactly right right right

Lindy Wynne (43:53.739)

But it shows the redemption of God in so many ways.

Mary Dolan (43:56.952)

Yeah. in so many ways. I think too, you know, yeah, it's so interesting because it comes down to that all children, you you explain the differences in your children. If you fully, truly believe that all children are a gift from God and they are God's child, yeah, I think then you...

you embrace them in a holistic way, right? Like you said, we can compartmentalize these different pieces. And I think too, I think in adult relationships with siblings too, we're always tempted to say, well, what's in it for me? Has this person, now they're gonna show up, right? So that moment to be like, well, yeah, better late than never, right? That's a saying, but yeah, it's an interesting navigation, but I...

I think another beautiful thing about being older is I would not trade my life story for anything. It was hard. My parents just really struggled. were both beautiful, separate people, but they really had a rough marriage. And I was at a time where nobody intervened. They kind of knew it was rough. I was loved in so many ways, blessed to not be in an abusive situation, but living in conflict every day.

but I became one of my expertise as conflict resolution, And so, it's like, yeah, because I'm familiar with it. So I think I wouldn't be who I am today if I hadn't had that rough journey. Yeah, and the protection and the Lord coming into my life in a personal way at a critical time, right? A vulnerable time, youth going off to university for the first time.

Life could have gone many different directions, right? I firmly feel, yes, I like to believe. Of course, I hunkered down and made some good choices, but I feel that the Lord was with me through all of this. And it is redemptive to your point. I think there is redemption in fighting the good fight, right? Absolutely. I could have said to my brother, well, where were you in those teen years? And I was embarrassed. I was always embarrassed.

Mary Dolan (46:14.798)

the way my brother was acting because nobody understood any of it. know, mean talk about yeah to navigate unidentified in every way Yeah matter of fact in the evaluation the psychiatrist said a beautiful thing To my brother my brother said well now that I know this I guess I'll have to change Then he said no no now. It's the people around you that love you and care now They need to change how they are with you You know

Lindy Wynne (46:40.265)

I love that. I love that so much because it shows for you and for all of us Mary that with your brother, for all of us, with all souls that we encounter because this is the way that Christ was and that we're called to, Christ was never about the I, but for us, we're often born all about the I. And so we move from I to thee. I to thee, the capital T, the Jesus Christ.

Mary Dolan (46:55.363)

Yes.

Mary Dolan (47:00.526)

Right,

Mary Dolan (47:05.505)

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Lindy Wynne (47:09.638)

and the thee of the other. That is our call. So regardless of what transition we're in, regardless of when we are discerning the will of God in our lives, it is always to love and to serve another. And it's not to be lost in it because we are always found by Christ. We always belong with Christ. And like you said, Mary, one of the great promises is Emmanuel, God with us. God is always with us, loving us, providing us with his supernatural provision.

so that we can love and serve as we are called. Thank you so much, Mary. This has been such a gift and a blessing.

Mary Dolan (47:44.686)

Absolutely. And I think that what I would say is when I feel that slump coming, right, we all start to go into different slumps. I believe sometimes you have to do actions and then the feelings come next. And often I'll find that, you know, you really need to do something for somebody else right now. Whether you're baking cookies, I belong to an equine rescue and youth ministry. It's beautiful. We work with students that have been through kids have been through trauma and loss.

with horses and bake cookies and take them out to the barn. Just do something. It's so interesting. It's always when you get out of yourself that circles back around, right? To purpose and meaning. And it can be something that simple. It can be because you baked and gave it to a neighbor. So yeah, so I think that the final thought I'd like to leave everyone with is my forever challenge to live Matthew 7-7.

And it is ask and it will be given to you. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be open to you. It's a daily ask, seek and knock. There's no end point. That's what I'd like to leave everyone with is to, I don't know how old I was when I realized that ASK spells ask, know, it's ask, seek and knock.

Lindy Wynne (49:08.082)

That's amazing. That's really beautiful. I didn't realize that.

Mary Dolan (49:11.692)

Yeah, I didn't realize that. so, but I think that's don't get discouraged. Don't be discouraged because I think when we understand certain feelings in our faith journey as normal, right? I think it helps us to continue the fight the good fight. We're all on this journey. don't, I will own that I never feel I have it all packaged up. You know, I mean, you know, I just got back from Notre Dame and which of course was a

Yeah, it was an amazing yes. It was an amazing yes. And to now say, okay, what's next? And our society can say this is like the last chapter of your life. And it's so important to say it's simply the next chapter, right? I think that's what's so important.

Lindy Wynne (49:58.599)

Yes, thank you so much, Mary. And would you like to close in prayer? Would you like me to? Sure, in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen. Lord, you tell us to ask, seek and knock. May each one of us do just that because you have molded and shaped and crafted each one of us by your hand. You are the potter, the potter and the creator of life.

Mary Dolan (50:03.212)

If you would, that would be great.

Lindy Wynne (50:26.138)

And Lord, we pray that each and every one of our lives is fixated on you, the Sacred Heart of Christ, and that we listen. We listen with our very beings to how you are whispering and drawing us near to love exactly as we are called. In your name we pray, amen. In the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen. Mary, thank you so much for being here. If someone is listening and would like help or...

Mary Dolan (50:45.944)

Amen.

Lindy Wynne (50:53.842)

encouragement or resources that you may have is there any way that people can reach out to you?

Mary Dolan (50:59.054)

Absolutely. How would you like me to include my email? Okay, It's K Dolan D O L A N and the number three. So K Dolan3 at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you.

Lindy Wynne (51:02.395)

You can just tell us what it is.

Lindy Wynne (51:15.399)

Perfect, thank you so much for being here, Mary. It's a blessing to be with you and I would just like to thank our providential God for drawing us together again, sisters in Christ and all of us together as sisters and brothers in Christ. Thank you for being here for this series. You can listen to many more podcasts in this series, Women of Wisdom, as well as still our Easter series, our Lenten series. Our lives do not flow the same always as the liturgical calendar, but yet we can find all of these seams.

Mary Dolan (51:18.552)

Have a great day.

Mary Dolan (51:25.71)

Yeah.

Lindy Wynne (51:44.657)

deeply threaded and interwoven throughout. So, know I'm here for you to reach out at any time to me and our Chaplain Father Jon Meyer, for us to pray for you, for your intentions, the intentions of your heart. We are always tied together by Christ. Can't wait to be together again next time. This is Lindy Wynne with Mamas in Spirit. May God bless you and yours always.

Mary Dolan (52:01.262)

Thank you.